What are the various style factory cases that were available for the "Sangamo Special" movements?

Thanks,
Robert

For the "Sangamo Special" movements we will being with the model 10 movement in the Wadsworth "pyramid" bow and crown... screw back and hinged bezel....

These are not marked "Sangamo Special" , only marked "patented bow and crown".....

( i don't have images on file, but will be taking some... add yours if you have them...)

lets not get to the 20's cases yet and sort post in 'time'.... so we can progress thru the years...

Terry,
Here is the patent for the Wadsworth "Pyramid" bow and crown that you just mentioned.

Hope this will help with your excellent start in describing the evolution of the "Sangamo Special" cases.

Robert

After the "flat bottom" crown shown in the patent image, we then see the more commonly seen crown..

Here is the typical case marking in these early cases...
note... they are not marked "sangamo special"
they are screw back and hinged bezel cases

and now note the typical hinged bezel... and Single sunk dial for the model 10. (this is a 16 size example)

These model 10 movements were special in their own right... Illinois was trying to make a thinner watch...

The model 10 movment was 0.5 mm thinner than a standard 16 size Illinois movement.
The model 10 movment was made in both 16 size and 17 size. The break point for this is somewhere around 3693000 ... there have been some movements measured after this serial number that still measure 16 size.. (one can't afford to buy every example one sees just to measure it...

These thin movements have been deemed 'correct' with only a single sunk dial.

This is the first use of a motor barrel by Illinois and the first factory cased Sangamo Special... ( stay tuned at the end for 'more' on this)

The model 10 movement regardless of 16 or 17 size had a 48 hour mainspring motor barrel. The change to the 60 hour resulted in a model number change.

I will be digging out some ads for posting before moving on to the next style case...


Feel welcome to post your pyramid bow case... without the SS marking... we will get to the marked case next...

Terry,
What year was the "First Factory Cased Sangamo Special" introduced?

Thanks,
Robert

The case we are on at this time is the first factory cased Sangamo Special advertised... (but I have a couple of surprises after the common ones are covered....) stay tuned......

Meggers listed the first appearance in the Illinois catalog at 1920...

with the case being patented in 1918.... hmmmmm

? anyone out there have an ad from this time frame before we move on in the time line??

Starting about 1916 or so Illinois started a long running ad campaign to feature the sixth position adjustment of the Bunn Special and Sangamo Special watches. This campaign ran on into the early 1920's.
Here is a scan of an August 1919 ad in "The Railroad Trainman" talking about the advantages of the sixth position adjustment. The cut shows a Sangamo Special case, although it is not mentioned anywhere in the text. Note that it has the "early" crown, with the vertical sides.

The one on the left is the earliest ad I could find that shows this case.

On the right is a somewhat later ad also from "The Railroad Trainman" in February 1922, still talking about the sixth position in the text, but showing both the front and the rear of a Sangamo Special movement. However, the front shows the case with the "new" style angled side crown, while the rear view shows the vertical sided crown.

Two questions ...

Would any of the crosshatch damaskeen pattern Sangamo Specials have been originally paired with any form of Sangamo Special case?

Would any of the parallel line damaskeen pattern 23 jewel Sangamo Specials not have been originally paired with some form of Sangamo Special case?

Fred

Thank you Ed, exactly what I was looking for...
(can you use the display image tool to allow a live image?)

This will let the timeline progress further into the twenties...

Fred,
There is some evidence of earlier Sangamo Special movements being cased... but not sure of if they were advertised... that is why i have been hinting for 'surprises' at the end..

and from Megger's study, these were sold cased... i do not think they were sold as movement only because of that study... of the examples seen in 'non' sangamo cases, there always seems to be a 'fit' problem because of the thinner movement...

Ed, Terry,
Thanks for sharing the very early advertisements and other information on the "Sangamo Special Cases".

Robert

Lindell,
Thanks for the link and excellent images.

What year was your "Sangamo Special"
made?

Robert

Lindell,
Thanks, very interesting point, I suppose it was very convenient for them to place the patented bow and crown on other size cases. Thanks again.

Robert

Ed has brought us along with the ad showing the flat bottom crown and the 'angled bottom' crown with his 1922 ads.

We are still on the 'pointed' bow... getting to the change where the cases are signed "Sangamo Special"

And the approach of the Model 13 movement.

This leads us to 1923 in the ad below...

thanks to the 'man behind the curtain ' for resizing the image above...

Here is a price list from early 1924.....

How may Solid Gold Jointed cases have been observed????

And note... they are being advertised as a 16 size watch, but in this time frame they are a 17 size..

As USUAL, great info , Terry, I have actually held a Model 10 Sangamo Special with correct Solid Gold "jointed" Sangamo Special case. Yellow in color and sadly did not get to record the serial number, it belonged to Marion Messick and was NOT for sale, being in his collection. Saw that one a few years back at the mid winter in orlando. Have Only seen two of these in over 30 years!

Terry,
Thanks for the additional "Sangamo Special" images.

Mike, thanks for your comments.

Was the "Sangamo Special", the first factory cased "Railroad Grade" watch produced by any watch company?

Thanks,
Robert

Terry,
Pictures enclosed as requested, and hello to everyone.

b

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Fred,
Thanks for sharing your really nice photos, especially the watch, box, paper conbination.

Your contribution to this topic is very much appreciated.

Robert

I hope this advertisement is appropriate to share at this time.

An interesting detail many of you may have never considered or overlooked on these not having the chance to see that many in solid gold. Notice that the ad states that the gold filled case is screw back and hinged bezel BUT the solid gold case is "jointed with inside cap"...aka a triple hinge solid gold case with inner cuvette, and a big difference, which by knowing this, one will know it is solid gold immediately if you ever see one at a show even before you look for the solid gold marking. Just a heads up for consideration that could keep one from overlooking a rare find (we should all be so lucky, ha!) Also the price of 185 dollars in gold and 100 for gold filled is mind blowing for 1925. These Model 10's were even higher than the later Model 13's which were 60 Hour. I think a car such as a Model T Ford was only 350 dollars or so!..whew!!!! (someone bring me up to speed on what a car cost in 1925).... great stuff.....and super thread, Terry!

That is correct.. they were the 'prestige' watch with the highest price...

As far as the gold case, maybe someone can talk Marion in to letting it be photographed.... you just cannot flip out a triple hinged solid gold case and call it a SS case...
As elusive as these SG cases seem to be we just don't 'know' the markings....

Yes Phil.... perfect... !

One thing I wanted to note about the ad... (it is from Megger's book, but published in magazines)...
He made a note at the top of the page.... Later developments seem to contradict what he thought about the dating of the marked cases...

Y'all can also note the Gothic (old english) montgomery single sunk dial... that is part of the 'bells and whistles' for these watches..

Also note on Fred's movement image the red border on the balance cock... this is an identifier of the Model 10... and these are still a 48 hour Motor Barrel.....

Let's see what else comes up before moving to the next step along the road.......

Phil,
Thanks for your 1925 advertisement and contribution to this topic.

Mike, you were pretty close on the price of a new Model T. Looks like only the "Rich and Famous" could own a "Sangamo Special".

quote:

these Model 10's were even higher than the later Model 13's which were 60 Hour. I think a car such as a Model T Ford was only 350 dollars or so!..whew!!!! (someone bring me up to speed on what a car cost in 1925)....

Declining production costs allowed Ford to cut prices--six times between 1921 and 1925, reducing a new Ford's cost to just $290. This was less than three months wages for an average American worker, and it made cars affordable for the average family.

Robert

Lindell,
Thanks for posting that really nice "SS".

Robert

And even Lindell's dial is uncommon.... the marking around the seconds bit....