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Sangamo- The Chief Of The Illinois "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
Newest Addition-this one shows some use, but its still pretty neat.
fred

 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
#2

 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
#3

 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
#4

 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
#5

 
Picture of Jim McKinney
posted
Cool Fred, very Cool !!

Now, surely, there must be more to the story than that - not just..."Here it is folks...pretty neat, huh ?"

Yeah, okay, already Roll Eyes - it's more than just neat... Razz Big Grin

So ! Come on Fred!! ....tell us !!! ...How'd ya get it ? - Wink
 
IHC Member 234
Picture of Jim Cope
posted
...yea Fred, 'fess up...other 'Sangamo' seekers need to know... Smile


Jim
IHC#234
 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
Big Grin Big Grin " It was a dark & stormy night "-- and I was rummaging around in this second hand shop---but wait--lets talk about this land I have for sale down here in Florida !!! Big Grin Big Grin
fred
 
posted
Fred, this is a heckuva combo!
We have to take into mind this was before the aluminum boxes...

There is one thing that I see though...

Most model 10 Sangamo Specials have a single sunk dial and the descriptions also mention this... this was a result of trying to make a 'thin' watch....

The dial on your watch was made in both 16s and 17 size... have you checked this out?

The dial description on the box is for a Heavy Arabic, which I would consider this dial to be.
 
Picture of Jim McKinney
posted
Wink Guess he's not talkin' while the flavor lasts . . . eh, guys ?? Roll Eyes Razz Big Grin heh, heh, heh !!!
 
posted
My model 10 Sangamo Special is identical to the one above. Same case, same hands and same double sunk dial. I have never seen one with a single sunk dial. Serial # 4166240.

Jerry Freedman
 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
I wish I could take credit for finding this one but the truth is a retired watchmaker in Illinois worked on this watch several years ago and told the owner if he ever wanted to sell it let him know. The watchmaker called me the other day and asked me if I was interested--well duh!! Of course I was more than just "interested". As for the dial its possible its been changed, and also the hour and minute hands dont have that deep purple color like the seconds bit, so I suspect they have also been changed.
Terry, what should I look for on the dial to try and tell if its original??
regards
fred
 
posted
Fred: Look no further than your own watch. It is all original. If you read my posting, you will see that we own the same watch. The hand's color is not purple, but a deep blue.

Jerry freedman
 
Picture of Jim McKinney
posted
And . . . there you have it, folks . . . the rest of the story ! Wink

Thanks for finally sharing, Fred . . . it was worth the wait. Smile
 
posted
Jerry,

Does your example have a red border on the balance cock?

The run that contains your movement is a split run.......



Fred,

Now I admit, I may be all wrong on this issue, but lets see where it takes us...

The first thing I would look for is the size of the dial....
Open the bezel, then look for a small gap around the outer diameter of the dial and the pillar plate of the movement.... there is about 1mm difference in the dial od.. if a 16s dial is placed on a 17 movement, you will see about a .5 mm gap around the dial (wish i had a pic) that will tell us if the dial is 16 size or 17 size...



I will admit if one looks on page 106 of the Illinois book, it does say 17s model 10 with either a sunk seconds or double sunk dial (paraphrasing here)........

It is just I have not seen these dials on a movement this early......

there is one other feature on this style dial that helps to date them.... if you remove this dial and find hollow dial feet, one can rest assured it came from another watch... if the feet are solid, then that just throws another question out there...

Fred, I still think it is Grrreat!!
 
posted
Terry: There is a red border on the balance cock of my Sangamo Special. There is no gap around the dial. At this point, I am not inclined to take the dial off and look at the feet. This watch came from Bill Meggers and he assured me it was all original. We will never know what the watch companies may have done to satisfy customers.

Jerry Freedman
 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
terry,
dont know what to think about the dial. there is indeed about a 1 mm gap around the edge of the dial, but i dont think the bezel would close if the dial was any bigger.
frh

 
posted
jerry,

thanks for that info.... the run your watch came from was a split run.... of both model 10 and model 13 the border on the balance cock signifies yours is a model 10.....

your watch is from a later time frame than Fred's watch, which could make a difference in dial styles....

you have the provenance on the watch, which says a lot about it..... I would feel certain Bill examined this one with a fine tooth comb...

now as far as not seeing a sunk seconds dial on this model....... look on page 211 of the illinois book... the gothic montgomery dial shown there is sunk seconds (single sunk)....

I can dig a little and scan some period ads showing the single sunk dial in heavy arabic... tomorrow....
 
posted
Fred,

That gap throws a flag for me....

Another reason for the single sunk dial....

this case style was designed to be thin... the model 10 movement should measure 6.0 mm thick, where the model 13 is 6.5 mm thick...

and that does make a difference..... i had an example that someone removed the dust ring... if i placed a standard illinois motor barrel dust ring in place, the bezel would not close.. it took thinning down the ring and even then it was close..

One day maybe I can hold this one in person...

Did not mean to hijack this thread, but having a wonderful example to show helps with the discussion...
The watch is still a great find .... just try to find a few more boxed with matching numbers...... you will wear out a couple of cars or computers finding them......

i have one model 13, but it is in a stiff bow case.. have two model 10, but both are 16 size...
will dig out the watches an try to post some pics tomorrow ......
 
IHC Life Member

Picture of Fred R. Hougham
posted
terry,
which Illinois book are you referring too??
frh
 
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Another 17-Size, Model 10 Sangamo Special, same run.

Number 3863829 with a dial like I feel Terry is referring to...


 
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Here are the "deep blue" color hands that Jerry mentioned.

A correct 17-Size Dial should fit up to the case like this one...


 
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