Marion's solid gold case on his model 10 was the real deal, marked exactly like all the other gold filled SS cases we are used to seeing . With the exception being that it was clearly marked "Solid Gold" and NOT gold filled. It was not an arbitrary miscellaneous gold case, he knew what he had, and I knew immediately it was a real McCoy. A true SS Solid gold triple hinge case for a model 10. But.....yes, I agree that it would be nice if he will grant us photo priviledges as a pic is worth a thousand words and he does carry it to some shows, though not always.........I can supply his phone number if someone wants to call him. Happy Hunting!

Lindell: I am confused! Is it the photo or does Fred's watch have an elongated bow?

Just for comparison, my watch, serial number 4166240 has the same dial as Fred's. The case serial number is 5680065.

You have good eyes, Jerry, Fred's bow is a aftermarket fabrication, I have seen a good many of these through the years. You will notice that a "real" pyramid bow goes out horizontally for a couple of millimeters before it turns upward. Lindell's picture shows a very well preserved example, you will note that the bow is not round but rather flat and angled flat and actually increases in girth as it moves toward the top. Rather than staying the same width or decreasing, it actually increases. This conforms exactly to what you see pictured in original ads. Additionally as the bow wears, it will still retain some of this proportion and I assure you will not wear "round".

It is important to have an eye for detail as well as the valuable information that we are seeing here in factory ads and emphamera. I have handled, I would say, a couple hundred of these Model 10's over the years and a "trained eye" picks up on subtle differences and as they say , "you just can't buy experience". These watchs are "only" 80+ years old and were built , sold and bought to be used. I find it a little strange that we collectors, think or expect that most watchs we stumble upon in flea markets, pawnshops, and watch shows, etc. will be all original, ha!........as my father used to say, "...when you see something that doesn't look right, it usually isn't...." I'm not trying to pick on Fred's watch, just stating the obvious as the dial has been replaced at some point in time as well (it should be single sunk). It is a rare, rare find though that it has an original box. You won't see one of those for every 2 thousand watchs you look at if that.

Yes,
The important thing about Fred's example is the surviving matching box...

The elongation of the bow could be an old repair also... the wear of the crown is comeasurate with the bow wear of a carried watch...

I won't speculate further, and just say the watch is what it is.. a fine surviving example...

Now it is time to step forward again....

The introduction of the Model 13 (17 size sixty hour mainspring) also brings forth a new generation of Sangamo Special Case.

The model 13 movement returns to the thickness dimension of the model 9 movement, 6.5 mm.
We still have a motor barrel, but now we have a NEW 60 hour mainspring.

The thoughts behind this were twofold:

Safety in the running time of the watch if a person forgets to wind the watch each day....

And for better isochronism... some of the early ads show a graph with a 'steady' rate for a longer time frame (this is really a 'different subject not really pertinant to the case).

The New case for this Model 13 movement is a Triple hinge, a tall dustproof crown, with a fixed engraved bow with a large opening for a strap or chain.

I don't know from where the reference originated, but I have always called this case the "STIFF BOW" Sangamo Special case. This is to differentiate it from the Later case... (coming soon... and you will understand the difference then.....bear with me... AND YES the literature says RIGID, but we NEED a way to tell em apart!! )

The inside curvette (dust cover) was engraved.

These were available in a variety of Sold Gold and Gold filled construction.

The Model 13 was furnished with a Double Sunk dial....

Note the factory is still indicating a 16 size watch, even though the movement will measure a 17size....

Here is a relatively scarce piece of ephemeria... a "tri folding" factory brochure...

This is the front side unfolded....

And now the back....


NOTE... In the description the reference to the ALUMINIUM CIGARETTE BOXES........

Terry,

This is a terrific bit of information in brochure form.

Here is a link to my Sangamo with the metal dial that is described in the pamphlet.

Sangamo Rigid Bow

Thanks Phil,
yes that will demonstrate two things...

a metal dial.... and I have seen other 'different' metal dials...

and the Rigid bow case which is pictured in your link vs a Stiff bow case... note the difference in the bow and crown...

We will cover more of the Stiff bow case before moving on to the Rigid bow case...

Terry, et al

Thank you! Thank you!

Robert

Terry,

Will we have more? Stiff bow, Rigid bow, Hope so.

yes, had to take a lil' break.... charge batteries, etc...
if someone has any stiff bow as i have described to post, go ahead...
i have to search thru some archives here

I have been looking thru some things here for some ads I 'thought' I had.. oh well ....

But here is one I wanted to put out there...

This demonstrates the bow design... note the engraving detail on the Green Gold Filled model..

and another view.. you can also see some of the (what i believe is acid) etching on the curvette of the hinged bezel, back and curvette case..

here are the inner case markings .... first the back..

and now the curvette (or dust cover if u prefer..)

yes, this one experienced a backed out motor barrel screw at some time...

note it is marked Sangamo Special.... and the brush finish...

here is the detail on the case edge... the basket weave ..

another view of the bow and crown, with the front bezel open...

Note this arabic 17 size dial....

and for a movement view....

this is a model 13, with sixty hour mainspring... note the lack of the red border on the balance cock, this is an indicator to tell the difference between the model 10 and the model 13...

here is a frontal view... not too good though...

this watch is an "old" ebay find.... the seller after the transaction offered this history on the watch...

the watch was 'rescued' from a shadow box frame in which it was glued to the backer board by the rear case... there was glue residue on it that was carefully removed with acetone and other solvents....

there were no surprises under the glue residue thank god.... but i could not bring my self to do any buffing on it....

the seller stated the florida estate was a lady that was a retired dancer in NYC, the watch had belonged to her husband and she had framed it.....

ask mike how the back looks......

Beautiful, original, and excellent condition watch! I remember when you bought it, (for half price, I might add! Ha!) Wish they all could be found this well preserved!.....show the ad in one of your Hamilton catalogues from 1928/29 showing the Sangamo Specials, available "also in a screw back and bezel case of nickeloid". That should get their attention!

u spoiled the 'surprise'........

in due time... taking this in chronological order ....

we are approaching the introduction of the RIGID BOW case now...

will give this a day or so for anyone to post their comments on the STIFF BOW examples....

anyone have any advertisments, etc??

What a great thread!!!

Thanks Terry (and of course Mike and all others as well)!

Fred

more is coming.... promise..

We will progress further now... coming into 1926....

The "Stiff Bow" is still shown in this factory literature..... this is on the rear of a color ad for Bunn Special

Beautiful literature. Almost makes me want to order one in solid gold for $185.

The Wadsworth 1926 Patent for the Sangamo Special, "Stiff Bow" case.

Robert

thanks Robert, a fitting addition...

note in the literature above...

two 'different' dials shown...
and they called the Arabic....
the one near the bottom "we" call gothic ...

note also the aluminum box reference...

and the reference to the METAL dial...

Terry,

Thanks, the really nice color "Factory Literature" lists in great detail the movement description, including the "Gold Timing Screws".

No doubt, this was one of the best railroad pocket watches that could be purchased in 1926.

The price of the 14k solid gold was $185.00, that would probably have purchased a 2-year-old automobile.

Thanks for your continued revelation of the "Sangamo Special" factory Cases.

Robert

Here is the price list from July 1926..

as a side note... note the availability of the 18s Bunn Special..... and the grade 89...

And here is a part of an undated factory brochure for the Sixty Hour watches.... (the other side are bunn specials)...

Of note is is not the dispatcher (not 60 hour), but the Sangamo...

This is what 'should' be referred to as the RIGID BOW case... compare the construction of this bow to the 'stiff bow' shown previously and you will see why this is a 'logical' reference to this case style. The bow is shorter, as is the whole pendant....

Meggers gives an intro time of 1927 for this case, I am researching for more ads to confirm this date. These were triple hinge, like the stiff bow with the same etched logo on the curvette...

If I am not mistaken, this rigid bow case was also available with screw back and bezel... MIKE?