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Dejavu.....havent I seen this watch posted else wear on this site? Yes I have to Argee it is one Beautiful watch!!
* noted size 17 dial on mod 13 movement.
Robert ,do you remember back before the internet when you could go to shows or get those watch lists in the mail? Back in 1992 I purchased two size 17 dials just to have "incase" . One is a Montgomery like yours and the standard D.S. dial. Id be lieing if I said I havent thought about switching the dials . I just dont know. What do you think?
Can anyone post a picture of a green gold filled case beside a white gold filled case? I don't know if I can tell which is which without some kind side by side comparison.
I am a dial collector, and I find dials to be very interesting. Just like our agreement there is more than we know. What I believe is, dial style whether original or replacements gives clues as to what went on long ago. As we learn more, we can make better judements of what to do, or not to do with our watches. Dating dials is not always an absolute, so we can always expect surprises when we have validation.
To me changing the dial on your watch would be a no brainer. Since you already have the 17s Gothic-Montgomery dial, I would suggest that you change the dial on a trial basis. See how you like it. As for the single sunk dial,keep it, or find a model 10 in need of a dial. Great dial by the way!
Front View of Dial Model 13
Responding to Jerry's question about the case tones. I've always wondered if the subtle tones can be captured and whether computer screens will show them accurately. Just for fun, and despite the reflections a sideways almost "traffic light" of Hamilton Model 2 Cases is shown below.
Rose, White and Green, does it come through?
Here are white, green and yellow gold. It is better to observe in hand.
Hope this helps.
DOCUMENTATION -- with respect to the originality of a single-sunk 24-hour Gothic dial for the model 13 -
This clip is from an undated Illinois dial catalog that Ehrhardt reproduced in 1976. It clearly shows and states that 17-size dials #8227 & #8229 for Sangamo Special Model 13 are "Enamel, Single sunk, Red 24 hour figures"
hi lindell, please add a 4th color, the basic yellow the against the others.
It looks like a single sunk dial like mine can be original to a Mod 13. Thanks Jerry for bringing this information forward. Like I said if we dont debate issues, previously unknown info might never come out.
Well Mike, looks like you get to keep your avatar!
Thanks to everyone, and especially to Jerry Treiman for digging up the evidence.
Thanks for the photos. I had expected that the green gold would have more of a whitish tinge. It seems to lean to a pale yellow!
The picture of the dials that state model 13 in Jerry T's post are pictured in a material cataloge from 1930. These are dials that could be bought loose, and could be used on a model 13. I can't help but think that an omission ocurred in the printing of this document because we all know that some of these dials would be exact replacements for a model 10. We would not even be having this discussion if beside the number 13, there was a 10.
My point all along has been that model 13 originally came with a double sunk dial.
Hamilton Watch Company-Illinois Watch would sell you any kind of dial you would want. It was only a matter of the dial feet on the dial matching the movement, and size. To the company a sale was a sale, and I say parts are parts.
Until recent times no one cared which dial was on which watch, as the watch was just a tool of the trade. Collectors are among the first to consider what dial was original to what watch. It has been with much effort and much study that experts including Bill Meggers himself noted that model 13 came original with a (DSGED) Double Sunk Glass Enamel Dial.
Interestingly enough Michael V and I have come to agreement on this matter. If you see one of my model 13's it will have a double sunk dial, 1)because I think that is the way the model 13 came new 2) I personally like the double sunk dial better.
Cover of Parts Cataloge
Inside the 1930 cataloge are these pictures
Note from the company explaining how to order parts....Robert
Additional dial info. for discussion.
Thanks for the additional information on these Illinois dials.
Thanks for posting the pictures of the Illinois dials from the Illinois parts cataloge. It is clear that these dials are parts only.
*Note_No documented example of a model 13 has ever been found with a single sunk dial.
Excerpt from Illinois part cataloge(Whole text above)
Thank you for the spirted debate,it looks like our conversation via this topic seemed to spark some new intrest from other members. I think that is a good thing!! It was a pleasure speaking with you last evening , I would like to extend a invitation,if youre ever in the Chicagoland Area please contact me and dinner is on me.
I enjoyed our friendly debate as well. If I am in the Chicago area, I will be sure to look you up. It is always good to meet another avid Illinois collector. Please look me up if you ever head south....treats on me!
Is is true that our discussions have stirred up some interest, and in the end we all win, as we continue to learn more.
Ad From 1928-29 Combined Hamilton-Illinois Cataloge...
Thank you and Ill be sure to do that!! I have another detail that comes to mind ,and maybe Im missing it somewhere in the Books. I cant find any mention of the Screw Back/bezal 14k solid gold cases. I see they mention the gold filled on page 106, the only mention of 14k solid I notice is on page 106 ,all hinged and on page 105 at the bottom. Also what is a Non pull out bow case.
I understand that non-pull-out bow which is referred to on page 106 of the "Blue Book" is referring to a Model 193 case. Look on page 228 item 2 for a picture of the 193 case.
That clears up the question over the 193 case . How about the SB/B 14k solid cases.
Ill look over the books again.
|IHC Member 376|
Here is a close up of the bow area on a model 193 case.
I just joined the club. This thread regarding the Sangamo is not only fantastic, but also a wonderful research tool. I am looking forward to enjoying being a member. Dan
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