I was hoping for some information on this watch case made for Hamilton Navigational watches during WWII. Does anyone have more information on the contract numbers listed on the front tag. This box is meant for the 4992b GCT and has a viewing portal on the top. I supplied a photo of the contract tag. Can anyone tell me if this box is WWII era or post WWII and for what division of the US Military is was used for. When were these cases produced?. Thank you for any information you may have.

WW II U.S.NAVY aircraft navigation

AIRCRAFT NAVIGATIONAL WATCH BOX
BU.AERO.U.S.NAVY
CONTRACT NOa(s)-2276 F.S.S.C. NO.88-B-860
HAMILTON WATCH CO.

AIRCRAFT NAVIGATIONAL WATCH BOX
BU.AERO.U.S.NAVY
CONTRACT NO. N156s-20403 F.S.S.C. NO.88-B-860
TOPHAMS INC.
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...g/Y/P1080009_(2).JPG

AIRCRAFT NAVIGATIONAL WATCH BOX
BU.AERO.U.S.NAVY
CONTRACT NO. N 288 s-14080 F.S.S.C. NO.88-B-860
THE PILLIOD CABINET CO.

As of 1957 the total production for the 4992B 24 hour Master Navigational Watch was 119,739. The 3992B 12 hour Master Navigational Watch was 2,494.

During WWII, 2,000 watches were produced for the British Navy (mostly 3992B). 312 were produced for the Canadian Navy. 73,285 were produced for the Army and 21,151 for the Navy. Most of the Navy models were in silver cases. They produced 7,726 Navigational Watch Boxes for the Navy. I get a total of 97,118 Master Navigational Watches produced for the Armed Forces during WWII. Small numbers were also produced for civilian use including for the major airlines

I am sorry Scott, I do not understand this reply. Are these the tag numbers of the boxes you own? When these boxes were made, did they all individual tag numbers like a serial number. Did they ever correspond with the watch inside? Are we able to tell the approximate date of manufacture by there contract numbers?

I'll let him fill in the details but I believe he's telling you these are the three companies who made boxes for these watches and on the boxes is information as to the contacts under which they were supplied to the government. The blue live link if you click on it is to a picture of a Topham made box ,perhaps in his collection ?

Is there any known information on these contracts to the goverment? When?, for who? and for how long?

In the August 10, 1945 military manual for the Hamilton Master Navigation watch, it is stated that "sometimes" the watches were mounted in soft iron or wooden boxes. The wooden box is noted as being used by the USN, while the Army Air Corps used an iron drum type box. The stated purpose of these boxes was, "to shield it [the watch] from possible magnetization by fields set up by stray electric currents within the airplane."

Unfortunately, I have no idea of how long the USN used wooden boxes to house the Hamiltion Navigation Watch. Although the Hamilton Navigation Watch AN5740 (Navy stock No. R88-W-510) was manufactured after 1945, I don't know if the Navy bought more wooden boxes for them.

Thank you for your reply. So does this mean that these boxes or metal cans were only used toward the end of WWII or were they used throughout. Would you dare say the wooden boxes are more rare than the metal cans? I tend to see more of the metal cans for sale than he wooden examples.

Every branch of the U.S. military had their own air force (they still do). The Navy's aviation branch was called the Bureau for Aeronautics or Bu. Aero. and that is how all of their material is marked. The U.S. Navy used to be divided into 'Bureaus' until 1966. From WW I until 1966, the Navy's airforce was called the Bureau for Aviation or Bu. Aero.

I have not seen any information on the exact dates for the various contracts issued by Bu. Aero. for timepieces and related materials such as your box. Normally, when a date is included as part of the contract number (which it is not in this situation) that date is only the earliest possible delivery and deliveries often happened for several years afterwards.

Hopefully someone here will be able to find a copy of this particular contract and tell you the date. I would be interested in seeing such a document myself. But even if one is found, you will still not know the exact age of the box for the reason I just mentioned about deliveries under contracts happening for a while after that year.

As to whether the Navy boxes or Army cans are rarer I am not sure I would say either is rare. Both the Army and the Navy bought large numbers and very few of these were ever destroyed or thrown away. And they bought them both during WW II and afterwards.

These timepieces were widely used on all kinds of aircraft from transports to trainers to observation aircraft to rescue aircraft to bombers to fighters. They were used in the U.S. and they were used in the combat theaters.

Solid provenance is really important in these kinds of things if knowing when and how it was used. Otherwise one can not really know if it was used in a Catalina patrol aircraft that flew night missions over the Pacific during the war, or if it was used as a training timepiece in Pensacola after the war, or whatever. And one must always take stories from old vets with a whole saltshaker of salt as they often embelished the stories of their souvenirs over the years.

Thank you Jim for your time and explanation. I would love to see more examples of these original boxes, as this is of great interest to me. We all know Mr Gary Sellick of Ships Clock Cabinetry and his wonderful talent. I was thinking of restoring this case as only he can. Original condition is best but when the original condition is "not so hot" I think a restored original with the original hardware is next best. I would love opinions on this matter

Everyone has their own view and one can do what they wish with their own things, but my view is to first keep it in its original condition with only a light cleaning so as to leave the patina and juju. Polishing things up to the point of making them look even better than the day they came out of the factory does not make sense to me since I am one of those kinds of collectors who like to think of a timepiece's history - the ghosts in the machine as it were. I know there are some people who are more interested in the technical aspects of watchmaking and prefer their things to be bright and shiney and new looking, and are willing to replace as many parts as they need to in order to get the timepiece looking brand new and that is fine with me, but it is not my idea of desireable.

Because of this view, I do not go along with restorations. I believe in conservations - by this I mean to as little as possible to get a timepiece together and ticking again. In these cases I believe in the use of old parts from either NOS supplies or identical model/same vintage donor timepieces, and to only use as many such parts as are necessary to get the job done. To me, this is conservation rather than restoration. Conservation preserves as much original fabric of the original timepiece and patina as possible which to my thinking preserves the timepiece as a piece of history with its own individual story about how it came through time to today. I think this is one of the reasons why I collect military timepieces - to me these have some of the most interesting stories locked up in them and it is those stories or the dream of possible stories that means more to me than the actual tiempiece itself as an example of the watchmaker's art.

You have not yet shared photos of the overall box in this situation, but unless the wood is rotted away to splinters and dust my approach would be to conserve it with a light cleaning - if necessary add a bit of wood filler to the places where the screws are attached if their holes are worn and loose, but only enough to allow the screws to be snugged up and become functional, etc. Replacing the wood and just reusing the hardware would be far too extreme for my sensitivities in that it would result in something that looked new and would in fact be 98% reproduction with little intrinsic historical significance or meaning.

I'm with Jim !!! I purchased from an eBay acquaintance in Iowa a historic ships barometer presented in Melbourne in 1857 to the captain of the Clipper Ship Essex ,an Aussie immigrant ship , after a stormy passage,by the first class passengers as a token of their appreciation. It was suitably and beautifully engraved,but before I was fortunate enough to get it, it was polished and lacquered, whoosh 150 years of Patina gone !

The box is not in bad condition but has been heavely lacquered by someone that obviously has no idea what they are doing. All I want to do is strip the thick lacquer (that is also covering the latch and contract info plate) and bring it back down to its original base. Then relacquer the correct way. I think it will be better off.

I´m with Tom and Jim, as much as necessary, as little as possible!
I don´t think any "serious" collector would want to "renew" his relic of the past.

I agree, items such as this have a history to be told. In this particular case the box was covered with such a thick lacquer over and over again it made the box unsable. All the contract plates and latches were covered to the point of not working as well as the rear hinge. Inside, the neoprene shock absorbers were rotting and falling off giving a strange moldy mustsy smell as well. I will attempt to bring this piece back to life and will show some photos after it's cleaning.

my Topham Aircraft Navigational Watch Box

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Nice box tom, but whats in the box?

an Elgin USN Bu Aero military ground speed stop watch,a proper watch for this box but not what I want,I want a higher grade watch that is correct and belongs there. The box is a beauty but the foam shock blocks are dead and almost powder

quote:

Topham Aircraft Navigational Watch Box

Tom have you got any literature about the watch that it was meant for?
The contract No. and watch Link from Scott A. Whittey doesn´t reveal much either!
AIRCRAFT NAVIGATIONAL WATCH BOX
BU.AERO.U.S.NAVY
CONTRACT NO. N156s-20403 F.S.S.C. NO.88-B-860
TOPHAMS INC.
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...g/Y/P1080009_(2).JPG

I believe it to be for the silver USN Bureau of Aeronautics watches and the GCT's. It could also belong to the Elgin US Navy Bu.Aero Aircraft Navigation Stop Watch I bought at the same time and place and which is in the one picture. The box is a heavy exceptionally well built box of lovely grained Walnut,including the bottom , with original varnish, a real beauty,WOW! The foam bumper pads though have almost disintegrated!

Hello,

I am new to IHC... I found this site because I wanted to find out more about my Hamilton Navigation Watch Box. I have one exactly like Michael Payant. What I am wondering is if anyone knows what the vibration material is made of... It seems like sea sponge.

I found my watch box about 20 years ago behind a drawer on a sail boat that had been taken from drug runners after it was sunk... The box was both painted black and broken and so I did re-new it and repair it. Now the box looks great and the watch runs well.