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Need help/thoughts on Elgin deck watch "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
A friend just picked up an Elgin 18s watch in a size 35/36 sterling silver US Navy military case. The s/n on the watch and on the case match. The s/n would indicate the watch is an 18s, 21 jewel grade 412 Elgin adjusted to 3 positions made around 1912 or so with a production number of 3600. Does anyone know anything about this watch or group of watches?

I was not aware Elgin made a deck watch in a sterling silver case (familiar with the ones made by Hamilton)for the US Navy yet the s/n's match.
2. Was not aware Elgin made a Wind Indicator watch other than Father Time, Veritas or B.W.Raymond but it clearly is a WI with an oversize dial to fit the large sterling silver case.

I assume the watch was meant to be in a wood box but that is missing.

Trying to find out information about how many there might be, potential value which I'm assuming is probably sky high.

Sorry, don't have pictures. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Vancouver, Washington, USA | Registered: May 19, 2005
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posted
I'm having trouble with visualizing what you are talking about. There was an 18S free-sprung Elgin 21-jewel Father Time Grade 367 deck watch that came in a watch case, I've attached a picture of an example from my collection (movement #14578767, circa 1910).

The same 18S Grade 367 movement was also mounted in a 35S brass tub that was gimbal-mounted in a wooden box.

Without pictures, all we can do is take shots in the dark from your vague verbal description. I'd like to have at least a movement number to go on.



18S Free-Sprung Father Time Deck Watch in Watch Case -- Movement #14578767


 
Posts: 6698 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
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posted

18S 21-Jewel Father Time Deck Watch Free-Sprung Movement


 
Posts: 6698 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
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posted
that's just lovely Ed!!! Eek
 
Posts: 1746 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
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posted
Thanls Tom, I love all the Elgin 18S up/down indicators with the exposed differential wheel (the little pinion that runs off the crown wheel). My other 18S Elgin up/down wind indicators are a 19-jewel Grade 240 B.W.Raymond (movement #14739778) and a 23-jewel Grade 214 Veritas (movement #16602135)


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6698 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
posted
Ed, thanks for your response. The watch I mentioned is in a similar/same case as yours assuming yours is sterling silver. Dial is very similar to your except it has Roman numerals rather than Arabic numerals and is not a Montgomery/numerical style dial. As I indicated, it has U.S. Navy engraved on the back of the case, has a s/n engraved on the caseback below the US Navy engraving which matches the s/n of the watch. The watch s/n when put into the Elgin watch database indicates it is a 18s, 21 jewel, grade 412.
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Vancouver, Washington, USA | Registered: May 19, 2005
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posted
That's interesting Michael, I've never seen an Elgin military watch with a RN dial before. I'd like to see some pictures of it when you can get them.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6698 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
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Picture of Tom Brunton
posted
I believe the circa 1910 gimbaled free sprung indicator Elgins were Roman Numeral dialed,at least the three that i have had all were RN dials including the last one I had which I sold to Andy and which was marked USSB (United States Shipping Board) on the bottom of the brass tub with a serial # - link follows. Wink

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...683963577#9683963577
 
Posts: 1746 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
posted
Tom, thanks for your post. That is the dial. As I said, the watch is in a sterling silver size 35/36 case and is a grade 412 WI movement. And, as I said earlier, I have never heard of a WI Elgin other than a FT, Veritas or BWR. Any information would be very helpful.
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Vancouver, Washington, USA | Registered: May 19, 2005
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Picture of Tom Brunton
posted
I don't have much other info Michael,other than the fact the movements were free sprung as chronometers and came as gimbaled or in sterling cases such as yours. A few pictures would be very nice. Wink I believe your version is around in far lower numbers than the gimbaled version. The dial is a lovely dramatic looking style ,the same in both versions !!! Eek

 
Posts: 1746 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
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posted
Ed, why is there no regulator or markings for the regulator on the balance cock?

Francesco
 
Posts: 226 | Location: Johannesburg, South Africa | Registered: November 19, 2012
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posted
This watch, like many precision chronometers, is free-sprung, which by definition means it doesn't have a regulator. In other words, if a balance had a regulator it wouldn't be free-sprung.

Regulators adjust the vibration rate of the balance by changing the effective length of the hairspring, which is quick and easy way to adjust the rate, but because they interfere with the action of the hairspring, regulators are not the best for time-keeping accuracy.

So for the best accuracy, you use a free-sprung balance, and on these the rate adjustment is done by changing the mean time screws on the balance rim, a much more labor-intensive process than moving a regulator arm.

Here's a prior discussion topic with more information:

Free-Sprung Balance Topic

Wikipedia also has a good article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_wheel


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6698 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
Picture of Francesco Marco Maraschin
posted
Thanks Ed
 
Posts: 226 | Location: Johannesburg, South Africa | Registered: November 19, 2012
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posted
Maybe this will help clarify this discussion.

 
Posts: 278 | Location: Florida in the USA | Registered: December 07, 2009
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posted
#2

 
Posts: 278 | Location: Florida in the USA | Registered: December 07, 2009
IHC Member 1337
posted
#3

 
Posts: 278 | Location: Florida in the USA | Registered: December 07, 2009
IHC Member 1337
posted
#4

 
Posts: 278 | Location: Florida in the USA | Registered: December 07, 2009
IHC Member 1337
posted
#5

 
Posts: 278 | Location: Florida in the USA | Registered: December 07, 2009
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Picture of Tom Brunton
posted
very very nice Paul Big Grin as you can see from the picture I'm green with envy !!!!
 
Posts: 1746 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
posted
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Vancouver, Washington, USA | Registered: May 19, 2005
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Picture of Donald Trumble
posted
Movement number 16748739

 
Posts: 503 | Location: Pennsylvania in the USA | Registered: April 02, 2005
posted
I cannot find any reference to a Grade 412 Elgin in Whitney as being a military watch. Am I missing it somewhere?
 
Posts: 858 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
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