Having been interested in pocket watches my whole life,I have a question I've never seen a good explanatio for...What is supposed to be the great advantage for a high grade watch to have a free-sprung balance wheel? I know Elgin made some 18s RR's that were free sprung.To me, having no regulator would be more aggravation for watchmakers after the watch was in use.You would have to regulate using only the balance weights and/or the meantime screws, and in the case of the Elgins, most of them had no meantime screws.Imagine doing a major repair such as a staff replacement, and having no regulator to work with.Especially, in the "old days", when electronic timing machines were not around yet!Were free sprung Railroad grades allowed in service?...Thanks again.

Hi Ted

Here is a link to some information Wayne has on his Elgin site about the free sprung balances. I don't really know anything about them, other than I would like one of those Elgin 18s Father Times.

http://trusted-forwarder.org/elgin/history/fm.html

Tom

I have a couple of Lord Elgin 23j wristwatches that have the "free sprung balance" and they run fine. For RR service they were offered under the BWR name in wristwatches but the movement was the same design. I know some of the later Father Times were supposed to be "free sprung" as Tom mentioned but I have never seen one that I know of, or what the grades were.

Here are a few shots of my 18S Father Time WI Freesprung

Movement

Great watch Ethan!

Tom

Here is an Patek Philippe WW Freesprung

Here is an Usher & Cole Freesprung.

I have an elgin grade 367 but it is the normal 18s and has the ray pattern. The WI looks to be 12 size and appears to have a special case that accommodates the smaller size.

Thanks, Tom, Ethan & Claude.I know whenever you see a free-sprung watch for sale, the price is through the roof...Ethan's Father Time sure is a beauty, I've always heard of them,but never had actually seen one.The movement looks a little strange though, with no regulator...I know Dueber/Hampden also imported a Swiss chronometer that was free-sprung also.

When I see decent Elgin WI's on ebay they go for a ton, usually the starting price is a half ton ($1000), so when it comes to WI's I tend to be a porch dog, too old to run with the big dogs.

Right on, Claude...I couldn't afford a wind indicator even if my life depended on it!But it's nice to dream.I'd really love to get an 18s Vanguard WI.

One of the advantages of a free sprung movement is the elimination of the regulator pins which need to be very precisely located, not too tight on either side of the hairspring or to loose. Either one of the conditions would effect time keeping in certain positions of the watch. Perfect adjustment of the two pins is difficult, hence the free-sprung concept of eliminating them altogether,especially on high grade type of movements which would be expected to be extremely accurate in keeping time...
Harold

Thank you, Harold...excellent explanation.Makes sense to me.....Ted.

The first 23j RR watch had a free srung movement--it was made by Hampden. I believe that the Edward Howard was also free sprung.

The added accuracy commanded a significant price premium.

Bob

I'm most curious why my recently acquired 18s Elgin Father Time gimbaled deck watch u/d indicator movement has a regulator bar,but no apparent scale though it is supposed to be free sprung ???

Theodore mentions

quote:

the balance weights and/or the meantime screws

I thought they were the same thing, can someone explain the difference?

A free sprung watch has no regulator arm. Hence free spring term.

To adjust the time keeping an experience watch maker would have to remove or add weight to the balance to get it to keep near perfect time.

Ethan is your Patek a free sprung as I see an adjustment as F- S on the balance cock.

Tom Your gimbaled father time would not be considered a free sprung IMO. As it has the regulator. on the one Waltham Free sprung I had in my hand the area of the balance cock where the regulator arm would of been attached did not have a cut out for the arm even to fit over it.

Tom-

My guess is someone added the regulator to your watch and it is supposed to be freesprung. I'm not sure how to exactly check that, but with no micro-regulator parts and no markings, i'm thinking someone may have added it thinking it was missing at some point. In the picture above by Ethan of his FT, you can clearly see that it has been cut out like a standard cock arm would be.

Eugene, I believe the Patek is free-sprung, Despite the markings, it does not have a regulator as far as I can see or know.

Ethans, Watch is free sprung, the markings on the balance cock indicate the method of adjusting the off center weights on the balance wheel.