A friend just picked up an Elgin 18s watch in a size 35/36 sterling silver US Navy military case. The s/n on the watch and on the case match. The s/n would indicate the watch is an 18s, 21 jewel grade 412 Elgin adjusted to 3 positions made around 1912 or so with a production number of 3600. Does anyone know anything about this watch or group of watches?

I was not aware Elgin made a deck watch in a sterling silver case (familiar with the ones made by Hamilton)for the US Navy yet the s/n's match.
2. Was not aware Elgin made a Wind Indicator watch other than Father Time, Veritas or B.W.Raymond but it clearly is a WI with an oversize dial to fit the large sterling silver case.

I assume the watch was meant to be in a wood box but that is missing.

Trying to find out information about how many there might be, potential value which I'm assuming is probably sky high.

Sorry, don't have pictures. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm having trouble with visualizing what you are talking about. There was an 18S free-sprung Elgin 21-jewel Father Time Grade 367 deck watch that came in a watch case, I've attached a picture of an example from my collection (movement #14578767, circa 1910).

The same 18S Grade 367 movement was also mounted in a 35S brass tub that was gimbal-mounted in a wooden box.

Without pictures, all we can do is take shots in the dark from your vague verbal description. I'd like to have at least a movement number to go on.



18S Free-Sprung Father Time Deck Watch in Watch Case -- Movement #14578767

that's just lovely Ed!!!

Thanls Tom, I love all the Elgin 18S up/down indicators with the exposed differential wheel (the little pinion that runs off the crown wheel). My other 18S Elgin up/down wind indicators are a 19-jewel Grade 240 B.W.Raymond (movement #14739778) and a 23-jewel Grade 214 Veritas (movement #16602135)

Ed, thanks for your response. The watch I mentioned is in a similar/same case as yours assuming yours is sterling silver. Dial is very similar to your except it has Roman numerals rather than Arabic numerals and is not a Montgomery/numerical style dial. As I indicated, it has U.S. Navy engraved on the back of the case, has a s/n engraved on the caseback below the US Navy engraving which matches the s/n of the watch. The watch s/n when put into the Elgin watch database indicates it is a 18s, 21 jewel, grade 412.

That's interesting Michael, I've never seen an Elgin military watch with a RN dial before. I'd like to see some pictures of it when you can get them.

I believe the circa 1910 gimbaled free sprung indicator Elgins were Roman Numeral dialed,at least the three that i have had all were RN dials including the last one I had which I sold to Andy and which was marked USSB (United States Shipping Board) on the bottom of the brass tub with a serial # - link follows.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...683963577#9683963577

Tom, thanks for your post. That is the dial. As I said, the watch is in a sterling silver size 35/36 case and is a grade 412 WI movement. And, as I said earlier, I have never heard of a WI Elgin other than a FT, Veritas or BWR. Any information would be very helpful.

I don't have much other info Michael,other than the fact the movements were free sprung as chronometers and came as gimbaled or in sterling cases such as yours. A few pictures would be very nice. I believe your version is around in far lower numbers than the gimbaled version. The dial is a lovely dramatic looking style ,the same in both versions !!!

Ed, why is there no regulator or markings for the regulator on the balance cock?

Francesco

This watch, like many precision chronometers, is free-sprung, which by definition means it doesn't have a regulator. In other words, if a balance had a regulator it wouldn't be free-sprung.

Regulators adjust the vibration rate of the balance by changing the effective length of the hairspring, which is quick and easy way to adjust the rate, but because they interfere with the action of the hairspring, regulators are not the best for time-keeping accuracy.

So for the best accuracy, you use a free-sprung balance, and on these the rate adjustment is done by changing the mean time screws on the balance rim, a much more labor-intensive process than moving a regulator arm.

Here's a prior discussion topic with more information:

Free-Sprung Balance Topic

Wikipedia also has a good article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_wheel

Thanks Ed

Maybe this will help clarify this discussion.

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very very nice Paul as you can see from the picture I'm green with envy !!!!

ELGIN 18 SIZE 21 JEWEL UP DOWN INICATOR U.S.NAVY 6 OUNCE STERLING CASE 1911
WW1 ERA VERY VERY RARE MODEL 36 SIZE DIAL

Here is the watch I was asking about. Apparently for sale now.

Movement number 16748739

I cannot find any reference to a Grade 412 Elgin in Whitney as being a military watch. Am I missing it somewhere?