Would someone be able to tell me the production numbers of the 18s Ball 16 Jewel Commercial Standard made by Elgin (grade 331)? Also was it adjusted and what purpose did it serve for Ball, i.e. just for his jewellery division or rail road use?

Thanks to All.

I believe the TOTAL PRODUCTION for the 16 Jewel, OF, P/S, Model 11, Grade 331 Ball Elgins were 2,000 from serial number 11,853,001-11,855,000. These 2,000 were all made in one run in 1904.

As to "adjustments" I don't believe they were marked. They did have the "J" shaped swan-neck regulator which would make you believe they were "adjusted". However the commercial standards were NOT to be confused with the Official RR Standard [ORRS] which was Ball's trade mark grade name for railroad grade watches, as opposed to those that weren't adjusted highly enough to pass inspection, the "commercial standard" grade watches. Those that weren't required to have a RRG/RRA watch could simply order a "near" example from Webb C. Ball in the commercial grade spectrum. They were very nice gentlemen watches of the times.

Webb C. Ball stopped ordering 18sz watches from his "manufacturers" in 1910-1911. He was instrumental in promoting company "trade-ins" for the new 16sz Ball watches by May of 1917 and continued to do so until 1919. The new 16sz Ball watches were not well accepted but through the trade-in programs by Ball and other watch inspectors and putting the new 16sz in "Loaner" cases to be loaned out to the RR men when they brought their 18sz RR watches including Ball watches in for servicing, the 18sz watches were soon taken out of service and out of the "time service rules". These old 18sz "bangers" were then re-sold to carmen, pitmen, car cleaners, and others of that class who didn't come under time service rulings.

Interestingly Ball called his Hamilton line "999's", whereas Ball called the Elgin line "333's". Many jokes were common among RR men that the Elgin Ball's were "1/3" the watch of Hamilton Ball's Ball didn't use "666" for the very obvious reason

Actually Hamilton 999 took the name from the new locomotive fleet leader, Engine 999 which was a NYC&HRR out of the West Albany shop, a 4-4-0 with tall 86" driver wheels with a top speed of 112.5 MPH in 1893. This was an unheard of and heralded speed for 1893 as the top locomotive train speed then was around 50-60 MPH That grade number 999 was inspired by the new locomotive and trademarked by Webb C. Ball in 1896.

Elgin 331 was only one of several grade numbers already in use by Elgin, the others were 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, and 334.

regards,
bb

Only Elgin reached the pinnacle of 18s. This one I restored for my late collection was one of my most favorite examples . . .

Thank you greatly Buster and Lindell for the excellent information, looks like I have a lot of research to do. Thanks David for the pictures of that nice Elgin, not as popular for some but they sure are nice eye candy.

Cheers,
Bila

Dave, did Ethan get that Elgin Veritas from you, if I may ask? If not, I have its twin in MY collection.

Regard! Mark

That is quite a watch!

Mark that one I pictured is a grade 240 19J B.W.Raymond s/n 14494484 but I do not remember who bought it. When I finished restoring it, it was very accurate.
At that time I had a few, and sold them all . . .
S/N's; 8578569, 9777766, 11201355, 12935865, 14233367, 14411515, 14494484, 14814659, 14866852, 21925915
Most had 24 hr. Canadian dials and cases, seemed to be very popular amongst the "Canuck Railroaders"

Ah, a BWR! Mine has exactly the same dial and case, but is a 23j Veritas 214 with diamond end stones from 1911.

BEAUTIFUL movements!

Regard! Mark

I had 2 of those 23J Gr 214's, s/n's 10482953 & 13425321

Beautiful movements, aren't they?

Regard! Mark