This dial fronts a 975 Hamilton 17 jewel Hunter configuration in a triple hinged C.W.C.Co. case in pretty good condition.
- movement serial # 1577032 circa 1924

Is this dial genuine, period correct or a reproduction. Iv'e had this watch for about 8 years and and am just now getting around to asking about the dial.
Any input would be appreciated.

Rick it's obviously a "conversion" dial without a seconds bit to use a hunter movement in an open face case. A lot of watch companies made conversion dials usually to move hunter movements that were overstocked in their inventory to go in open face cases which were becoming more popular.

What material is it made of ? Have you had the dial off ?

It appears to be period correct for the movement from 1924 that it is on.

regards,
bb

Hi Buster and thank you. It's so nice to draw from the "Books of Knowledge" from this site. I have not had the dial off but to me it appears to be enamel. I brought it in a couple of years ago to have it checked out and there are a couple of worn parts that need to be replaced at some point and I never thought to ask about the dial composition. I bought it at an auction years ago simply because I liked the dial and case knowing nothing about a pocket watch. Courtesy of this site I know considerably more now by comparison and still some big gaps yet but have the benefit of the knowledge and experience of the members here to fall back on.
Once again thank you.
Regards
Rick

I have a 975 that was converted to a open face model like Buster said. Mine is a fancy metal dial with no seconds chapter signed Hamilton.

Thank you Rick. Probably having a look at the back side of this dial would give us a better idea of whether it was made after Hamilton closed or not.

I lean toward aftermarket, but I can't be positive without seeing the back. A lot of aftermarket dials I have seen had the same slightly "off white tint" to them which yours appears to have.

regards,
bb

I had to look twice at that one , the 6 is bolder and darker , I would love to see the back also . Harry do you think your dial is by hamilton ?

I am surmising.... that the reason the 6 is bolder and darker is because the CPR D/S dial shown here does have the seconds bit and perhaps the maker of this dial somehow copied it and then had to add the 6 because the CPR dial does not have a 6....

Hello all, as there is some interest here it would be my pleasure to call/take the watch to my watch repair fellow to take the dial off and will take some pictures. Currently he is up to his neck in clocks so it may not be right away. I will post here when I have some pictures of the back of the dial.
Thank you all for your comments.
Regards
Rick

Kevin I believe it to be an original dial but I have no way of knowing. I bought the watch a long time ago for if my memory serves me right about $26. The seller thought it odd that it did not have a seconds chapter which peaked my interest. I have a post on it https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...703955667#9703955667 The dial was redone by International Dial Co.

Thanks Harry , does the 6 look bolder on your dial also ? or am I thinking too much ! That is a nice looking dial . i was just curious about it , I often look at old catalogs that had pages of dials that showed everything from masons to fishermen and wonder where they went .

Mystery!
I like Lindell’s theory , please show back of dial.
Mike

Kevin The 6 does look a little bolder to me also. Also if you look at the shadow on all the rest of the numbers the shadow is to the right and below the numbers. If you look at the 6 the shadow is above and to the left of the number. The International Dial Company told me they had about 1000 original Hamilton dial patterns and this is the way the finished it. I don't know if the 6 was added on or if the original template was that way. Here is what the original dial looked like.

Mike here is the back of the dial. I have heard Lindell's theory from other sources and it does make since. Mine is marked "Made in the USA" also and one theory was that it was an overseas version and was converted for overseas as a lot of movements overseas do not have a seconds hand.

Great photo of the dial Rick, might be my eyes but to me the "6" looks off center. It looks closer to the 29 min mark. It just doesn't look like something Hamilton would have done.

Does anyone else see it that way?

Tim

Tim it looks centered to me although if you look at the space between the 6 and the 5 and the 6 and the 7 it appears closer to the 5. I believe it looks that way because of the shape of the numbers.

I noticed that also Harry, but when I look at the bottom of the "6" the distance between the 29 min mark and the 31 min mark appears different.

Something just doesn't look right!

Tim

This is a shot of the 9 and rotated 6 on Rick's dial

Side by side of Lindell's dial and Rick's dial.


Here's a spitball theory. Hamilton took uncut dials and stamped the 6 on them to provide conversion dials in order to sell hunter movements that were no longer in favour.

I admit they could have done a better job on the 6.

There are a few quirks about these dials that are similar.

The top of the 2 in the 12 looks a little fat.
The top of the 2 reaches to the left.
The 1 in the 10 looks slightly taller than the 0

Ha ha, Lindell, I was editing out the photo from that thread and putting in your photo as you were posting.

This is a conversion dial I have in a drawer...I tried to sell it on the group a while back but noone was interested so I thought I just keep it ...Interesting conversation piece...What do you think about this one...Factory Dial???Looks like it might be to me but I am surely no expert..

Pic 2

Looks like the real deal to me!

Roger

I agree with Roger. The few porcelain conversion dials Hamilton made that I have seen had the porcelain on the back side also. Nice dial Gary !

regards,
bb

Thanks Buster and Roger...I was thinking this was a factory dial, but was looking for someone with a little more knowledge than myself to confirm...Thanks again, Gary

Hello, here are a couple of photos of the back of the dial. The back of the dial is glazed.
also a shot of the dial and watch back plate.
Rick

again

dial

plate

Thanks Rick, originator of this interesting discussion.
What are we seeing here seems to have come from the factory, in my ignorant opinion.
Mike

I am still a bit skeptical with regard it coming from the Hamilton Factory, a Factory yes but maybe a Swiss based one (glass repo dial????) or maybe a re-fired dial to get rid of the subdial, as that 6 is definitely odd, which everyone has alluded to.

I would like to see that dial back in much better light and at different angles to see the glass enameling better.