Can someone rescue the rookie?

Setting_Hands_issue.doc (181 Kb, 187 downloads)

Hi Paul, From one newbie to another. Soulds like a rubbing situation.
1- Is the pipe or OD of the hands too big for the hole in the dial.
2-Is the Pinion In the center of the dial hole? IE rubbing on the edge of the hole when the hand is in?

Can you tell us the problem you are having ??

Perhaps you made a "movie", out of this, but I am having trouble opening it.

Perhaps some posted "still pictures" will help, and of course tell us what kind of watch has the problem, with pictures.

I would start with removing all hands.

I would then put the seconds hand on and allow it to run for a few minutes in dial up, and then dial down positions and watch it closely under a loupe for any close clearance with the dial face or the sunken portion edge of the seconds bit. If watch stays running I would then put on the hour hand.

I would then engage the setting function of the movement and advance the hour hand with the crown or key 36 hours around and see that it doesn't bind on the face of the dial OR interfere/bind with the seconds hand. I would then let it run for a few minutes in face up, and face down positions. If the watch continues to run, then I would put the minute hand on.

I would then engage the setting position of the movement checking first that there is "separation" between the hour and minute hands and that they aren't touching each other. Then I would advance the hands with the crown or key for 36 hours and make sure that none of the hands touch one another or the face of the dial AND that the minute hand's "tip" isn't too long and might be binding/touching the front bezel when the bezel is in place. I would then let the watch run for an hour in each of the face up and face down positions.

Also, if you have changed the crystal, make sure that it is not binding/touching on the center wheel shaft/pinion which could stop the watch if the new crystal does not have proper clearance.

regards,
bb

I bought three distressed Keystone Howards with the hopes of netting two good watches. This one had a rotten dial and rusted hands. When I opened it up, the stem screw was frozen. I managed to get it out, but it was unserviceable. I pulled the barrel bridge, replaced the screw and stem lever… the donor lever did not like it’s new home. Fortunately, the original lever threaded on to the new screw just fine.
Hand polish the case, swap dials, reset the crystal and I’m on the home stretch… except…
When I set the hands, the watch stops. They will turn with the pendant, but there is a lot of resistance. Interestingly enough, the watch tries to run, but slow… all the wheels turn but the hands don’t move… eventually the watch slows and stops. The watch will run 36 hours and sounds great with no hands.
I remove the minute hand, no change. I remove the hour hand and the watch is healthy again.
I’ve had her open and close several times, the cannon pinion is set to an even plane with the setting gear it meshes with… button her up, set the hands and repeat failure…

Paul,
I had a simular problem a few weeks ago...When I put the hour hand on watch would stop...What I found was the hour hand went on hard and squeezed the top of the hour wheel to tight against the cannon pinion...I broched the hour wheel and hour hand a little and that solved my problem..

Paul, with the hands on the watch, how does it set? Is there a lot of resistence?

I just read it again and saw that you said there was. It sounds like your cannon pinion is to tight. When you installed it, did you lube the center wheel pinion?

Sorry about that Gary, I didn't see your post. One way to tell is try setting it without the hands on. If it sets easy then the hands just might be the problem.

Regards,
Larry

I didn't know I could lube the pinion... will a dab of Moebius 9000/4 be appropriate? Or should I have a special lube for metal on metal?

Is that what you are using for the train? I just use what I am using for the train.

Not a lot, just touch it on the pinion and it should do it for you. You will be surprised at how much smoother it will work.
I
Regards,
Larry

Paul, you have to understand the only watches presumed to have interchangeable parts were the last 16s Hamiltons. There are many, many, MANY reasons for what happened as you described. I suggest you study Chris Abell's watch service checklist at;

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6047761/m/4451034703

Then remember what we have all learned the hard way . . . NOTHING, that is NOTHING can be assumed to be interchangeable. Follow Chris's check list, totally disassemble, then clean the watch, pre-test for "Free spin" of several critical components and then assure correct fitment of the Cannon pinion, mid wheel and hour wheel.

I have even then "stopped" watches because the seconds hand was 0.002" too long and scratched to a stop against the bevelled side of the outer chapter.

Great advice from David and others. You can also check to make sure the dial washer isn't missing or flat. The dial washer keeps the hour wheel engaged with the motion works as well as keeping the hour hand from rising and coming in contact with the minute hand. This little washer is very important.

Paul, did you resolve the issue?

Thanks for asking. I went back to a naked center pin and watched her run. Then set the cannon pinion and watched her run. Then set the hour wheel and watched her drift to a stop.

As it turns out, I have a clearance issue between the hour wheel and the cannon pinion. Because the hour wheel is rubbing on the cannon, and because the two are married through the middle gear in the setting train... it causes it to act like an old transmission stuck between two gears and locks up the movement.

I don't normally do all the intermediate checks as I go back together, so I thought the problem had something to do with setting the hands.

Now that I know where the problem is, it is just a matter of time to get back to check the cannon for a scratch or burr and maybe figure out how to polish the interface between the two.

I'm actually considering using some lapping compound and hand lapping them since I don't have broaches.

I'm pretty sure it will be an easy fix from here.

I couldn't for the life of me focus long enough to see if the center shaft was behaving..., so I put the second hand back on and fashioned a needle of peg wood, marked time, had dinner and came back to find that this portion of the test was satisfactory...

Paul, sorry we missed this when you visited. I have had this problem come up when the hour hand presses onto the hour wheel so tightly that it locks the wheel to the cannon pinion. A little burnishing here and there and it all gets better.

Hey Paul,

Funny thing, I just had the same thing happin to me tonight. I put the hour hand on a 992 and I couldn't set it. I knew it was tight, but had no idea that it was that tight. I just Broached the hour wheel out a "VERRY" little and everything is fine.

Never had that happin brfore!!

Regards,
Larry

Took my girls to Dave's shop today and made myself a general nuisance getting over the hump on a couple of projects I was stuck on.

Understanding that I had a clearance issue between the cannon and hour wheel, Earl loaned me his broach set and coached me on how to use them.

We were met with huge success and she is ticking away with my master watch, keeping time with the best of them.

Another assembly detail.

This E. Howard has a snap fit dial. It also has a wristwatch style clutch and lever arrangement for the stem. I could not for the life of me get the stem retainer to capture the stem properly...

I figured out I could install the movement in the case ring minus the dial. This gave me a great visual of the levers and clutches from the front side as I set the stem.

Then I trued the movement in the movement ring and seated the dial with the movement mounted in the case.

Worked like a champ.

This watch is the circle triangle arrow model adj to 5 positions.

The pictures didn't come through... so trying again