Were there any changes made to the Hamilton model 2 case over the years that would distinguish the earlier from the later, other than serial numbers?

Thanks,
Robert

Only one major change...

The earliest ones will have "chevrons" or "leaves" where the case ring meets the pendant...

I don't have my info on the 'highest' case number right now...

Then you have to go by serial number or the inside case markings....... the later cases lack the patent date... this started in the very late 40's...

Terry,
Appreciate your answer with the outstanding photo.

Thanks,
Robert

Lindell,
Very clear distinction, there also appears to be a "beaded" edge, where the crystal meets the metal on the bezel of the earlier model! Excellent photos as usual. I also noted that the earlier model was 14k-GF versus 10k-GF on the newer. Thanks again for your fine research.

Robert

Robert,

The 14kt is a white gold fill, the 10k is yellow gold fill.

Charlie

Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the additional information.

Robert

I have not seen any referece to the color variation in the 10K GF cases in any literature...

It is possible this is just a manufacturing variance between different lots of raw material.

Also, that is a good 'pick up' on the bezel detail....... I had forgotten about that... will look at other examples to confirm..

I have often wondered the reason for the "leaves, chevrons" etc... Is it possible this was a provision for silver solder application of the pendant to the case ring? I have never tried to take one apart (and would not for obvious reasons) but do wonder if the pendant on these early center rings was applied...

So as a 'list'...
10k Gold filled (yellow, rose)
14k Gold filled (green)
14k Gold filled (white)
Solid Gold


And to recap so far....

2 variations of the model 2 case.....

early ( leaves, chevrons ) and Beaded Bezel at the crystal

*******
highest 'chevron' case listed is 0363643, but we 'think' we have seen em up to 0388xxx..... lowest case number so far without chevron is 0388xxx, but not listed in database......

***********************************************
later ( no leaves, beaded bezel) dating only distinguishable by the case markings

Lindell, Terry, Charlie,
Thanks so much for your very comprehensive description on the "two variations" of the Hamilton model 2 case.

Robert

I have 2 examples of the favored #2 Wadsworth cases..#0379,521 and 0379,767 without chevrons, no farther info on whether ygf or wgf or ggf or what movements they housed if any, can't remember what show or where I saw them or if it was on ebay they were spotted but had them wrote down in my ledgers for you and forgot to give this info to you for the ongoing database. Hope this helps...

I have been meaning to post to this for added information for some time and it seems time always gets away from me so I will post to it now and see if the membership can help us find out where the beaded edge disappears on these beloved #2 cases. As the 992B's are rather readily available we should be able to make some headway and it will help Terry Hall's database and all of us as well for info purposes. Lindell's Excellent pictures of an early and later #2 case show that the later one has no beaded edge.

I would say that Lindell's later case would date to the early 50's as the #2 Wadsworth was discontinued in 1953 and that approximate case serial number would be J395953 as that is the highest #2 serial number I have ever recorded. Now, in my collection of cases I have J114374 which DOES have the beaded edge and dates to 1949. So I am assuming the beaded edge disappears between these two numbers and that the number of Lindell's later case has a serial number between these two as well.

If you can post the number to the later case, Lindell, the membership can post any others that are between these two numbers that they may have and whether or not there is a beaded edge or not. The more we share and see the more we learn. Thanks and Happy Hunting!.....

Mike,
I read with interest your posting and agree that it very important to determine the "time frame" that watch cases were used and any modification to that case. The movement/case serial # database that you and Terry are maintaining is also very inportant in determining when a watch was produced.

You mentioned that the Hamilton #2 was discontinued in 1953. Would you possibly know the approximate dates that model #10, #11, were discontinued? This information would be very helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Robert

judging from examples observed...

the model 10 seems to have faded away about 1946-47

c153264 h732790 10 12-03
c156659 h733321 10
c161448 h733174 10 6-28-03
c168142 h797115 10 6-28-03 SS HG DIAL,
c252319 h798014 10 1-24-03 SUSPECT RECASE (note the big jump in serial number)



the model 11 lived longer... approaching the 50-51 (edit th) time frame...


c289935 k316321 11 BOX END PICTURE
c297304 k325275 11 BOXED WATCH WITH LABEL 151 dial
c397251 k361577 11 1-18-03 smooth



the later model 11 cases can be detected by the smooth area around the pendant. the early ones have a 'step'... (and by serial number)

The dates above are approximate from watches observed, still recording and maybe a boxed example will appear that is later...

Terry,
I certainly appreciate your excellent answer.

Robert

The model 2 case is probaly the favorite hamilton case among collectors of hamilton watches..

Some of them came with fancy backs such as this ..(Did hamilton do this?) they are nice ..

Hello Samie,
Really nice back, have you seen other model #2's with engraved backs? Thanks for posting the image.

Robert

Lindell,
Do you know what time period your engraved case was make? How is the back marked? Thanks for the beautiful photo.

Thanks,
Robert

Lindell,
Many thanks for the photo and other info.

Robert

Lindell a freind of mine own,s the pretty hamilton case i posted up ...he sent me the pictures of this pretty case..I was surpised to see another just like it..(that,s right who would of thought of seeing 2 on the same day)...By the way he is thinking about joining chapter 185.. He own,s some more nice hamilton,s

The serial# on the case is 0507718 no prefix in front of the numbers 14k gold filled and has a 992e #12629460 movement...the pattern for the lettering inside the back lid in a v pattern like your example.

the white and green gold filled were marked 14k gold filled.....


the yellow are marked 10k gold filled (as are the rose)

this seems true for the other cases also...... but after the model 9 case, one won't find a white gold filled one.... (yet).....

and.........

Thanks Samie for posting that one (U too Lindell).......
These 'fancy backs', 'tuxedo backs' are NOT common...... expecially in this condition........

Hello Terry,
Do you know the approximate year Hamilton stopped offering the Model #2 in 14K(Green & White)gold?

Thanks,
Robert

gotta give a broad answer on this.....

mid thirites...... would be about right...

the model 8 is noted in the late 30's catalog as 'yellow only' in this time frame...

Terry,
Thanks, and a follow-up question, was the Model #2 the only "Hamilton Railroad Factory Case" offered with "tuxedo/butler/engraved" back?

Thanks,
Robert

not totally sure, but believe I have seen other cases... maybe a 5 ......

I have not captured images of any though...
Most seem to be stashed away deep in collections...

Here's my two cents worth on the Model 2 Wadsworth cases by serial numbers that I have (All WITH BEADED EDGES next to the crystals).

J386849
J377418
J343476
all 10k YGF late ones with NO patent dates.

H667959
083343
both 10k YGF WITH patent dates.

0507718
14k WGF Tuxedo Engraved back pictured in the Samie Smith posting.

0354274
14k WGF WITH shoulder "leaves" or "Chevrons."

Now I'll throw in a couple of questions: I noticed that some have patent date ABOVE the serial number and some have patent date BELOW the serial number? This is probably not very important and just different production runs?

Here's a bigger question: My 0354274 has chevron shoulders while my 083343 does not have them. Yes, the center frame matches and is stamped with "X3343" on the edge--a much earlier number that 083343.

I can only guess it is because the earlier number is in 10k YGF instead of 14k WGF or Green gold-filled, but that seems strange. So it seems the chevroned shoulder came out in mid-production of the early ones?

Can anyone date all these cases by year for me and if so, Thanks!

Hello Larry,
Thanks for your additional model #2 information. It appears that Wadsworth didn't use any consistent numbering scheme with their cases. Terry Hall and Mike Chamelin maintain a data base and I'm sure they will give some in-sight on your question. They are both very knowledgeable Hamilton experts.

Robert

The #2 cases had chevrons from the beginning of production until they were discontinued in 1928 around 0400,000, the white cases were discontinued in May of 1934 and the green cases were probably discontinued at that time as well.

The frame of the cases are usually stamped with the X and then the last 4 numbers of the serial number to show that they are matching numbers, the bezels are simularly marked with a matching 4 digit number and sometimes it is in the threads of the bezel in roman numerals.

Solid gold #2 cases of which I have a white 99% example had their own range in the early 0100,00's..... there are some random #2 gold filled case serial numbers out there that do not make sense that I have seen, but they are an anomoly and exception to the rule as for the most part.

The #2's earliest production starts in the 0240,000 serial number range and go up to 999,000, they then go to a H prefix, work through that and then go to a J prefix.

I will not go into dating cases in detail nor date anything else in general as that may take away the "umph" that Terry Hall's future publication on Hamilton numbers will provide when published in the future. He has worked extremely hard on these numbers and his research is very time consuming but he graciously dates individual cases for collectors and we should be thankful for his sharing. So I can not explain any further on serial numbers as we want all collectors to benefit from it at a said future time of publication so to speak.

Hope this is of help and Happy Hunting!..