WWT Shows CLICK TO: Join and Support Internet Horology Club 185™ IHC185™ Forums

• Check Out Our... •
• TWO Book Offer! •
Page 1 2 
Go
New Topic
Find-Or-Search
Notify
Tools
Reply to Post
  
Geo Oram & Son Watch 1826 (?) "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 820
posted
I have a Geo Oram & Son watch S/N 16981, in a silver case.
I am looking for information on the movement and also on the case.
From the marking on the case I think it is .925 silver made in London (CTAS face), around 1826 (BOLD H in a Shield), W H C in a rectangle.
More Pictures to follow

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
Pic

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
#2

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
Pic #4

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
Pic #5

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
#6

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 1892
posted
Hi Melvin: Nice watch. I think it may be considerably later. I think the date stamp is more likley to be 1883. Also the british Museum shows Geo Oram & son to be active in 1842 -1875 ( your watch may have been finished later.) If you could show the other plate and a view of the movement side it would help. I think a watch from 1820-30's would be much thicker. I am thinking your watch would have had gold hands when new.
From my limited search It appears they made some repeater and other fine watches in 18 C gold.
I could find nothing on the case maker WHC
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 820
posted
Hi John,
Thanks for the rapid response.
I am more than a little squeamish about taking it apart further because I do not know what to expect.
It seems that the winding of the mainspring is done from the front.
If that is true, each time it has to be done, the hands (seconds, and minute hand ) must be removed. As well as the dial.???
The reason I thought it was 1826 was the “H” embossed on one of the plates.
The “lion” I think denotes London.
Can you advise as to what to expect as i go further.
Mel
 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
PS any idea what the jumble “1402” means?
 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 1892
posted
Hi Melvin: I understand you reluctence to go further. It is easy to get in trouble with these watches.First: Lion stamp indicates it is silver.
The trangle shaped stamp with what appears to be a pussycat with a mustach is the mark for London assay office.
The date code is determined by the shield shaped mark inside the back of the case. Yours has the letter H in it. If you compare it to a chart of "London Date Letter marks" you will see it is 1883.
The arbour and ratchet wheel you see under the dial is NOT to wind the mainspring but is to set the tension on the chain (yes chain..like a minature bicycle chain) that runs from the mainspring barrel to the fusee. It should not be moved unless setting up the tension of the chain. It is the arbour on the fusee that is wound to wind the mainspring. In order to do this the movement has to be tipped out of the case. IF you look at the dial side of the watch with the bezel removed you will see (by the pendant a tiny hinge) opposite it (@ 6 marker) you will see a tiny catch. Using a thumb nail to press it you will find the movement can be lifted up to allow you to see the "top plate" this is the one I was refering to in my earlier message). Once opened you will see the balance wheel and cock. You will also see the winding arbour that winds the fusee which in turns pulls the chain that winds the mainspring barrell that winds the spring. Smile It is a rather complicated way of doing things but there is a reason which I will not get into here.
So you will not have to remove the dial to wind the watch but simply tip the movement out of the case, take the watch key, put it on the arbour and wind away (caution.... I would not wind it fully but only 1-2 turns to assess how it runs, if at all. I do not know what 1402 means, John
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 1892
posted
Hi Melvin. If you were to google "Fusse watches" you will find a lot of info on this type of watch. Be carefull, they can be addictive Big Grin John
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 820
posted
pic

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
one more

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
How do I add more than one pic at a time?
 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 820
posted
I am familiar with the concept of the fusee chain to even the torque of the mainspring as it unwinds from the arbor.
The balance wheel is free.

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 1892
posted
Hi Melvin. Sorry, I do not know how to add multiple pictures, You might ask Dr. Debbie for quidance.
I did a google search for Joseph Firth and found a little info.
Apparently he was noted as a Watchmaker, Jeweller, Optician at 29 Nicholus St Aberdeen.
He had an ad In the Aberdeen Journal in 1877.'
Also a note re. him that he was perhaps a retailer but not a watch maker. Your watch would seem to confirm that ie. ebauch by Geo. Oram & son but jewellers name of Joseph Firth OR an early example of a Jewellers Dial watch. I don't know as I have seen another fusee watch with a Jewellers dial. Looks like the chain might be ok, only undone. Tricky job reattaching but I an sure you are up to it.john
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 820
posted
Hi John,
I am not familiar with this mechanism per se.
It looks, to me, that to wind the mainspring, you actually turn the fusee arbor and the fusee chain pulls the mainspring barrel to wind the mainspring. Does that sound right. The click for the mainspring is on the fusee arbor, not the mainspring barrel.

And somehow on my watch the click has come off the teeth, allowing me to just turn the fusee barrel.

Referring to the attached pic, if I loosen these two screws and remove this plate what should I see.
The fusee arbor and part of the mainspring barrel?
Do you think with that plate off, I will be able to reassemble the chain? Or will I have to disassemble it further?
This may be taking a lot of your time and I do appreciate it.

 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Melvin,

Adding multiple images in one post is not a feature of our software.

And, we discourage outside hosting image services as they tend to get deleted. In the past whenever someone loads images to those free hosting sites, we all to often see the image below, which can be very frustrating when someone is researching a particular watch.



 
Posts: 4834 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
IHC Member 1892
posted
quote:
Melvin,

HI melvin. What you are describing is basically how it works.
Referring to the picture with the red lines on it:
The arbour you see here is for the fusee and is used to wind the watch.
The two screws circled hold the barrel bridge on. If you take them out you can remove the mainspring barrel and therefor check, clean the mainspring. I see the chain is off so the mainspring will be let down. You should be able to reattach the chain but it is not easy, you have to determine which end of the chain goes to the fusee and to the mainspring. If the chain is still in the watch ie behind the fusee it shoud be self evidant. You have to attach the hooks to the little slots in the fusse and barrell and then wind the chain outo the barrell and then onto the fusee therfore when you wind the fusee it pulls the chain onto itself and off the barrel while winding the mainspring. The arbour on the back plate (on the barrel) is used to tighten the chain so when the watch is run down the chain will not fall off. The tricky part of this is to wind the chain onto the barrel and maintain tension preventing it from falling off. I have done this by putting both hooks in place then holding watch vertically, put a very small wt. on the chain to provide tension.(think of closeline with wt. attached to middle) Then wind chain unto barrel. When partially wound up turn arbour on barrel 1/4-1/2 turn to provide tension when wound down. Its been a long time since I have done this so I hope you can make some sense of all this. It took me quite a few tries before I got the first one in!!!
You might find by removing the balance cock and balance with HS it would be easier.
Hopefully This helps. John
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 665
posted
Melvin, thank you for taking the trouble to post those informative photographs of your most interesting watch.
 
Posts: 202 | Location: East Melbourne, Victoria, Australia | Registered: December 31, 2005
IHC Member 1613
posted
I know a fellow who does this...

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 2

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 3

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 4

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 5

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 6

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
Pic 7

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 1613
posted
PIC 8...Very delicate work...

 
Posts: 1969 | Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland in the USA | Registered: September 27, 2011
IHC Member 820
posted
Getting the chain back on both the cone and the mainspring barrel proved to be a difficult undertaking. There were three basic elements,(1) getting the chain snaked thru the post and facing in the correct direction, (2) hooking the chain on the cone, and (3) hooking the other end of the chain on the mainspring barrel. I was good at all three, but NOT at the same time!!!. I could get the chain snaked thru in the proper direction and hook one end, then when I went to hook the other end, one of the other requirements became UNDONE. Persistence and getting up from the bench more than once, finally paid off. Using John Willis's suggestion I finally got all three elements successfully done.
The watch is running under its own power, not perfectly, but running.
Now that I have some semblance of how a fusee works, I will take it apart further, clean , oil and hopefully put it back together.
What a great site, and the help from all is astonishing!!!!!!
Thanks ALLLLLLL.
 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Melvin,

I agree with you this is a GREAT Discussion Site with our IHC185 Members freely sharing their knowledge! Smile

Debbie

 
Posts: 4834 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
IHC Member 1892
posted
Way to go Melvin!! You got it much quicker than I did. I think it took me a couple of weeks to get the first one, Roll Eyes That will be very nice when cleaned up. John
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 820
posted
Hi,
Thanks to you , I was able to get the chain on. I used a method based on your recommendation, AND I got lucky!!
The end that went on the cone, stayed rather easily, I had to keep tension on the barrel end with my finger.
But it was fun.
As you pointed out the hands are probably not original. The movement is in a silver case, so gilt hands may not have been the proper match.
The second hand is totally missing, and the minute hand has a square that is larger than the mating post.
My search starts now. I have plenty of hands , but most for wrist watches, Bulova's, ETA's and AS movements.
Thanks again for all your help and search.
Mel
 
Posts: 500 | Location: West Newton, Massachusetts USA | Registered: September 10, 2006
IHC Member 1892
posted
Hi Melvin: Would I be correct in thinking the dial numbers and dots are yellow gold? I have had some watches like that with sold gold numbers, dots and hands. ie hands were solid gold not plated. The dial itself would be silver. I don't think I have any but will look. What is the dial diameter of the dial. John
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


©2002-2021 Internet Horology Club 185™ - Lindell V. Riddle President - All Rights Reserved Worldwide

Internet Horology Club 185™ is the "Family-Friendly" place for Watch and Clock Collectors