Claude;

Mine is 15,XXX,XXX. Did these have the later dial or the earlier one with red 5 min markers or either?

What in your opinion is the yr/ser# cut off date for the earlier dials?

By the tme you get to the 36X-39X grade Elgins the typical dial would be the DS block "Elgin" (D45) with the red min markers, the Montgomery dials would have been extra cost items. Some of the later 3/4's can be found with the bold numbers with diamond markers (D49). The 214's, 239's, 240's, and 274's can be found with <<Elgin>> dials but by the time 1910 rolled around the block Elgin should be the correct dial.

This is the typcial one on a grade 412 also a nice low production watch to pick up when you can and they usually go cheap. I think the change-over range was around the 1904-1908 time frame.

I added a D49 shot but this is on a 16s grade 391, which would have been the 16s mate to the 390 basically. The D49 shows up on the 367s and 390s but not as often as the D45 with the red min markers.

Great topic as an observer; happy to see a number of similar watches in my collection...helps me trust my instincts more.

When I first started collecting I shied away from 18s, particularly full plate...I was attracted to bridge styles most, Getty and more open 3/4 styles. I think its like wine..a bit of sweetness in the begining...but then drier starts to taste much better... I still drink semi dry...but have more appreciation for dry, full body (and full plate 18s).

Gary I was in the same boat (stay away from 18s) but I saw that I really was missing some nice watches. In the case of the Elgin grade 412, only 3600 made total it is what I call a "tweener" it was in between the "accepted by all RRs" and not being RR approved. The grade 412 is a LS 21j adj3p which means that some railroads would have allowed it but other would not. Santa Fe RR allowed 17j a3p up into the early 20's so the 412 would have had no problem meeting those standards.

I have some nice watches but you will note that I am value oriented, unless I hit the mega-lotto, no Lord Elgin 351's or 950B's for me but I don't drive a Rolls either so I am ok with that.

Most of these watches were the labor of some extremely talented workers so no matter what the brand you can find some good quality in the mid to high segment grades without having to give up body parts to do so.

The other nice thing is people get to see some watches that they might not have thought about before, as you mentioned so that is a bonus.

Posted this one for sale here on IHC if anyone is interested