The only South Bend 18s 21j models are the 327 (300 made), 328 Studebaker (1000 serial numbers blocked out, believed to be less than 200 made), 329 Studebaker (3000 made). The cheapest of these, the 329 studebaker, will cost you in the high hundreds and push into the thousands very quickly for good examples.

As a collector of south bend, I can't say they are the best bang for the buck for an 18s, 21j. Hence the reason I point to Hampden. I would like to think I have no preferential treatment when comparing the rest of the 18s 21j models out there and giving my opinion on best value based on them all being considered rr grade watches when made. I also collect 18s bunns, but again, they are not as good of a bang as the hampdens, elgins, and hamiltons. I think Claude's comparison is a very accurate description.

I wil not show you another 940 which I agree is one of the best "bang for the buck", but if Dave can do it....
Here is ,out of contest, my eye pleasing 17 jewels frosted Waltham 1883 for your viewing pleasure.

Regards
Peter

Looks like I fooled myself on this one..it is NOT a 17 jewels but a 15..now I have no excuses...
Well, at least it is an 18s...

If 1 is the most bang for your buck and you only have 4 groupings then I had hoped most would understand that anything in group 4 would be the least bang for the buck. Most 21 South Bends cost a ton even the 17j version especially if they are engraved "The Studebaker". In the case of Rockford most of 21j versions of the 800 and 900 series cost a ton also.

If a good South Bend 18s 21j shows up especially with a good dial, watch the decimal places start to grow. I like South Bends but the 18 sizes in good condition usually end up out of my range.

Claude,

That is one of the reasons I started the thread, to see if there was something out there that was NOT on my radar (sub 200$).

The conclusion there are many nice 21j 18s that an individual can pickup on ebay for less than $200 in a nice GF case and good dial. And folks are even picking up for less than 100$. Which, imho is a steal, especially with a decent GF case or running or if it is a 940 Hamilton w/ the true double sunk dial (they can go for 100$ alone if hairline free).

A real Killer deal "Bang for the buck" is the Eaton I picked up for $90.00. Restored and sold for $170.00

David - Eaton? What is the story there? Nice looking...

In bang for you buck, I am sure if you look the Hampdens (Hancock etc) and the Hamiltons (940s) were in similiar pricing while I would consider an Elgin 150 or 181 to be a higher priced/higher grade watch, also a lot less common.
That is why I gyrate toward the Elgins, uncased both the 149/150 were both $45 in 1896.

This is a great discussion. I collect Hampden and Illinois and in terms of bang for the buck I am very fond of the 18s Dueber Watch Co. They are not very expensive and if not butchered are great runners. I have all of the Hampden 23 and 21j 18s watches and just acquired a scarce 18s John Dueber 17j 5p railroad watch that I am still tinkering with. In terms of time keeping I do not see the 23j Hampdens as better than the 21 but in terms of looks the North American Railway is my favorite. In my part of the country Hampden Hamilton and Illinois are what most of the railroaders seemed to have used. Elgin is there but was not for some reason as popular based on my 50 years of haunting pawn shops and jewelry stores and flea markets.

I forgot to mention that the 18s Hamiltons were designed, I understand, by the fellow who did the popular Hampden 18s railway watches. SO----- all those cheap knock off Hamiltons, like the 940-46 should henceforth be labled FAUX HAMPDENS!

Deacon on one site Hampdens were bad mouth so much you would think they were made out of tin. I collect Hampdens along with the other brands but mostly Hampdens and Elgins. When I check them for time accuracy the ones that have been serviced within the last 5 years are as accurate as the other brands. As you said the Deuber and John Hancock 21j tend to go overlooked and under-priced.

It is also not that hard to find Hampdens that were made in the 5-10K range and more than a few made under the 2K range.

I would not have any issues putting a New Railway, or North American Railway up against a 940 for build quality or a 16s model 5 New Railway 21j against the same time era 992, or Elgin, Illinois etc.

For the money I have found Hampdens hard to beat for cost/quality bang for the buck,

Another 21j 18s Hampden for less than 80$

The movement -

My first rail road watch was a Waltham 845 movement I got in 1971 to put in my Dads 18 size Waltham silveroid case with a 15 jewel movement that I worked on when I was about 15 and didnt know shoo shoo from shinola and tore it up, the 845 is still running goo, starts with a few winds I dont run it any more because it ought to be coa'd Jeff

Jeff -

The 845 is a very nice movement.

We love pictures, and please feel free to post some of your 845.

V/r

Jon

Will try to post 845 Waltham pics, I got this movement from Rose Industries in 1971 for 15.00 and it ran, runs fine my photos are not up to ihc185 standards. JUeff

Movement 845

David, 1892 model CPR's were made in 21 jewels as well. Ehrhardt vol. 1 shows a total of 2000 17j and 500 21j made.
Mike

Claude you are right in saying that many turn up their noses at the Hampdens and that is regrettable because they are fine watches from a company the competed hard with the big boys. Personally I am nuts about the 16s New Railway and have several that will absolutely keep time with my Bunn Specials and 992 Hamiltons and I think they are one of the most attractive 16s watches available. I know they did not make that many and I am always amazed at the price of the 16s Bunn of that period with substantial production vs. the much rarer New Railway. Under appreciated, undervalued and how lucky for Claude and Deacon!

Mike that is a great CPR and I hope to own one someday. One other thought on the 18s discussion is that I always appreciate the looks of a good nickle silver case with a nice crown and bow. They can still be found at a decent price and so many of the gold filled ones seem to be too worn or prohibitively expensive. I would rather have a working railroaders nice looking nickle case than a mediocre gold filled one and i currently carry my 18s Dueber 21j in a nice nickle case that even has a locomotive on the back.

Deacon I have picked up a few silveroid cases lately and even the ones that look like they were whooped with an ugly stick with knicks and such, you can bring them back to life.

I have started sanding them with wet sandpaper starting at 200/400/2000 grit then polish then with auto polish and they look great.

A new bow and crown and voila you are sitting on a nice looking watch case.

Whenever I see a CPR up for sale, the price most of the time looks like it has a JATO rocket strapped to it.

I am still holding out for a Hampden model 5 16s/23j Special Railway but most of the time they also get the JATO price launch.

A $200 Hampden, the watch was purchased on our online shopping ground and looks as close to mint as a watch can.

Movement


Front


Case back

Claude that is just outstanding and an excellent example of the 16s Hampden New Railway. Nice looking case and a scarce dial!

This 925 I paid $15 for. Not bad bang!

Wanna double your investment?

Salesman case 21j 18s Hampden

Just serviced and enjoying life

Lucky to find this 18s Hampden case -

Very nice Jon!

Deacon,

This is the 1st Hampden Salesman case for me... Did all the salesman cases for Hampden come w/o a bow?

Thanks

Jon

Well I picked up another "un-official" Elgin grade 277, sn shows it as a run 5 grade 150 but it is a lever set so it is one of the 200 or so converted pendant set 150's, price tag $154 and shipping. I still think the 21j Hampdens would be the best bang for the buck but sometimes these Elgins will drop into the hunt also.

IMHO, you can't ignore the 3/4 plate 18 Size Elgins. I've been piecing a collection together the last few months, and scored another VERY scarce one the other night off ebay:






This is a Grade 390 BW Raymond, made in 1911 ONLY, and I can't recall ever seeing one. Only 4400 numbers in this Grade, no telling how many like this. (Got this on a BIN for only $175 bucks, I'm very happy.)



Grade 390 18S BW Raymond 3/4 Plate


So far, I've got the 19J BW Raymond, which can easily be had for under $200, a 21 and 23 Veritas OF, a VERY scarce 21J Veritas HC, another scarce 17J GM Wheeler 3/4 plate hunter, a marked "no. 349" 3/4 plate OF, a Father Time 3/4 plate and this 390.

These have gone up a bit lately because of the 3/4 plate dials (100-125) but searching ebay the 19J BWR and Father Time can easily be had for 200-225. Ask any knowledgeable watch guy, and he'll tell you these 3/4 plate Elgins were mighty fine timepieces.

There's my "collecting on a budget" bang fer yer buck example.

I agree that any 18s 21J Hampden has to be the best bang pricewise, since many still haven't seen the light.Hamilton as said before pretty much ripped off the 18s Hampden design, hey at least they copied the best!I like 940's too, especially the motor barrel ones, but even they go for a lot nowadays.I'd also like to nominate the 18s 21J Vanguard, they're still somewhat under rated, but what a beautiful movement, gorgeous gold lettering, raised gold settings and diamond endstones.Claude and Deacon are right on about the 16s 21J New Railway,there's no finer American watch, mine is my favorite out of my herd!...Ted.

I have all of the major 18s 3/4 plate such as the 367, 369, 390, along with the 239, 240 and 214 and 274, the later Veritas version usually can run a bit but the 240 19j can be picked up cheap in many cases. The 3/4 plate GMW's, FT's and BWR's can be picked up at good prices and are extremely good grade watches.

Here is a picture of my 390 out of the case,