Does any one know how to use the paste for making the hands glow, I have some in tins, it does glow but do u mix it with some thing to make it spread or what? I have no idea. Do u clean off the old stuff of the hands first? may be the stuff i have to past it use by date.... Any thoughts any one !!!! thanks Francis

The type I have is real old. Mine has a copper looking blade that you heat up. Then it gets liquefied and you can then spread it. Make sure you apply it across the back of the hand. I did it to front of a painted hand that was hollow that at one time had some in it. Basically the paint popped off.

Thanks Eugene I will give that a try and see how it goes. Never thought about heating it. Thats why is it easier to ask but before stuffing up any thing...

Hi Francis; make sure it is not radium based before you use it or it could be dangerous. It wasn't always marked radium when it was , and there were times when it was marked "Radium" and it wasn't You'd be better safe than sorry

What Tom wrote isn´t to be taken lightly, Dr.Adrian van der Meijden. Roland Claessens. Hans Goerter wrote an exellent article on this problem.
I can only add it is well worth reading first. EXPERIMENTS WITH RADIOLUMINESCENT DIALS FROM MILITARY IWC WATCHES.

Excellent article Werner.

W-A-R-N-I-N-G

Guys this stuff is for the experts and the military and not for the collector/hobyist, so let's stay away from it if at all possible. We don't want you to end up like this or worse

regards,
bb

Here is another excellent article on radium. This was written by the guy in England who I buy my WWI style leather straps from. The radiation readings will scare you. I won't even wear an old watch now that still has the original radium numbers and hands.
http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/luminous.htm

quote:

The radiation readings will scare you. I won't even wear an old watch now that still has the original radium numbers and hands.

Another well written article, and an informative site/link, but there´s no need to panic, just be careful when opening the case or removing the dial/crystal of an old luminicant watch.

Regards

To all those that wish to repaint dials and hands of watches with Radium may want to read this....

Historical Uses of Radium....

Radium was formerly used in self-luminous paints for watches, nuclear panels, aircraft switches, clocks, and instrument dials. In the mid-1920s, a lawsuit was filed by five dying "Radium Girl" dial painters who had painted radium-based luminous paints on the dials of watches and clocks. The dial painters' exposure to radium caused serious health effects which included sores, anemia and bone cancer. This is because radium is treated as calcium by the body, and deposited in the bones, where radioactivity degrades marrow and can mutate bone cells.

During the litigation, it was determined that company scientists and management had taken considerable precautions to protect themselves from the effects of radiation, yet had not seen fit to protect their employees. Worse, for several years, the companies had attempted to cover up the effects and avoid liability by insisting that the Radium Girls were instead suffering from syphilis. This complete disregard for employee welfare had a significant impact on the formulation of occupational disease labor law.

As a result of the lawsuit, the adverse effects of radioactivity became widely known, and radium dial painters were instructed in proper safety precautions and provided with protective gear. In particular, dial painters no longer shaped paint brushes by lip. Radium was still used in dials as late as the 1960s, but there were no further injuries to dial painters. This further highlighted that the plight of the Radium Girls was completely preventable.

After the 1960s, radium paint was first replaced with promethium paint, and later by tritium bottles which continue to be used today. Although the beta radiation from tritium is potentially dangerous if ingested, it has replaced radium in these applications.

By all means available to you, be careful....This stuff is deadly when used or applied improperly....

Regards,

Jerry

This thread got my attention so I took my Ion Chamber radiation detector and measured the radiation level of this watch at close proximity. The level came out at 6mR (milliroentgen),about 1600 times the allowed safe background limit.This will not pose any danger if the watch is kept in a display case and out of touch, but I wouldn't advise carrying it in your pants pockets for any lenght of time.

Thanks Peter, that was an interesting test you performed on your watch....

How old is the watch you used for the test...? I agree with you, I would not want to carry this or any other watch with radium luminous numbers or hands....

Radium has 25 isotopes known and the most common one is radium 226 and it's half life is over 1600 years so this stuff will stay around a long time....

Regards,

Jerry

That's exactly why I won't wear an old wrist watch with radium. I am a cancer survivor and don't really want to take a chance. Attached is a picture of my Illinois Lady Stewart wrist watch that I posted last week with the "Tom Harned" inscription on the back. This is the before shot of the dial.

This is the "after" shot. I just finished this yesterday. I soaked the dial in Comet Cleanser for about an hour. Then I took a relatively stiff paint brush and brushed away the radium from the numbers. After that I immediately dump the cleaning fluid and rinse out the jar. Then, using acrylic paint, I carefully repaint the numbers. For the hands, I removed the radium, put a piece of tape on the front of the hands, then fill in the gap with acrylic paint from the back. Filling the void in the hands takes several applications. When paint has dried, remove the tape from the front. These hand turned out a little sloppy compared to others I have done. The next image shows a cleaner job with a different color of make-believe radium.

This photo shows a little Illinois pocket watch that I restored. For the hands on this watch I chose a different radium color (I noticed about 3 distinct colors for old radium -- an ivory color, a greenish color, and a brownish color). On the previous watch I went with a brownish color for the numbers to match the darkened color of the radium that was originally in the hands. I felt it also went well with the new pig skin strap. With these changes to the dial and hands, I feel much more comfortable wearing my old wrist watches.

quote:

After that I immediately dump the cleaning fluid and rinse out the jar

and you dumped this where, may I ask?
because it is now a potential risc somewhere!

quote:

Radium was still used in dials as late as the 1960s, but there were no further injuries to dial painters.

As I was saying, don´t panic, just be careful.

HI Jerry, thanks for the comment. The watch is a general purpose Swiss made,15J, WW2 military model from the early forties, I presume. In the back there is the usual G.S.T.P. crowfoot and the number M29835

I would like to tell people not to panic because they have watches with suspicious luminous dials and hands,the great majority of them uses the harmless phosphorus compounds and are perfectly safe.
I checked all my military watches for radiation level, and, out of eight, only this one showed an abnormal amount. The only other one was a Waltham with a reading of 1.5 mR. It is also interesting to note that none of the military watches, radiating or not, glows any more in the dark.

The only way to know for sure is to actually check the watch with a radiation meter, a not too difficult instrument to come accross these days.

Incidentally, I have also some military radios from WW2 and their "luminous" dial markings and meter scales still emit quite a high level of radiation.

Regards
Peter

Werner, first it went into my country septic tank, and from there out into the leach field. No problem for man, nor beast

Thank you every one for your Advice and Posts, all are very good and EVERY ONE should be enlightened to the Potential Dangers of this stuff. The Pw's that i was working on now have been put safely away till i can get a meter to see if they have Radium in the dial or hands. Wat a lovely present to give to some one if it makes them ill or kills them.....

Where can one go to find a cheap, useable Geiger counter? I have a feeling Harbor Freight doesn't sell them

quote:

Wat a lovely present to give to some one if it makes them ill or kills them.....

what a lovely thought!

I keep all my Military watches in aluminum cases, and I must admit it´s not the single watch which could become a hazard, but an accumulation of them all in the same place.

Wow Bruce, that's an excellent job you did repainting that dial, looks very good. I'm afraid I don't have the dexterity or the patience to do one of those. (Thank goodness for international dial Co.-- --Shameless plug there).

Truly a professional job all the way Bruce

regards,
bb

Thanks guys for the compliments. That particular job gave me a sore neck. I definitely gave my new OptiVisor a good workout!! Concerning International Dial, I really like the work they do and have used them for several dials. On this Illinois, though, I wanted the background to remain original and just wanted to get rid of the radium (plus, I was super anxious to finish the watch so I could start wearing it

Thought you all might find these interesting. Found on Google Books.

William

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I find this an interesting post, especially the refinishing job that Bruce did.
I have this nice old 1927 Hamilton plain cushion case that is very reliable and keeps accurate time. I've been wearing it a little off and on lately, and plan to have the hands refinished and leave the dial as is. But now the radium issue concerns me a little.
First question I have is, can this dial be soaked in comet without destroying the painted dial? I don't think so. So, Bruce how did you do that? And where do you get the paint to refinish?
Recommendations?

I was going to send it off for refinishing, but will wait for some answers.
Thanks,
Dave

[Rolex Radium Replacement on Dial & Hands]

For years I have used a safe, luminous acrylic paint made by Palmer. I just checked and it is still available Here. It's pretty simple to use: I use a toothpick to place a small amount on a piece of glass and then mix it with a tiny amount of water to get a slightly thinner consistency. Just apply it with the same toothpick and watch as it spreads perfectly across the back of the hand. It has good surface tension making it possible to bridge even the largest openings easily. For larger hands, I usually apply a second coat and it will dry in just a minute or two. Additionally, since it is water based, it can be tinted with a child's water color set! Whatever you do though, stay away from anything suspected of containing radium; you do not want any of that stuff getting into your body.

William