Greetings,

I have a Hamilton 22 deck watch with the serial number of 2F6227, which has the following characteristics:

- Non-gimballed, in the small display box with outer box
- Serial 2F6227
- Movement marked U.S. Navy-Bu Ships - 1942
- standard base metal case with no markings on the back
- back case on the inside has the Keystone stamp, as well as the serial number 238334

I don't normally collect these, I'm more of a marine chronometer collector and have a question about this piece. Most of the ones that I've seen in the past have the contract information engraved on the back of the watch, whereas this one does not. Does anybody know of any other examples like this, with no engraving for a serial number of this vintage?

Michael, welcome to IHC185!

If you expect us to make meaningful comments on the authenticity of your box, you best post some photos. Verbal Q&A just can't convey enough information.

There are detailed instructions on how to post a photo at the top of the Timekeeper's Photo Gallery.

Welcome to the forum, Michael. As Ed recommends, it is really hard to say much definitive without some nice clear photos including closeups (use your macro setting on your camera) posted these for us to be of much help.

That said, from what you say it sounds like you might have an original movement and possibly and original outer box with a replacement case from sometime after it left the militiary. As you say, the original cases are well marked on their backs. Frankenwatches are not uncommon, either from honest use and replacement of parts along the way of their life, or from more recent and rapidly increasing efforts by guys who are trying to boost their sales prices by putting together 'military watches' from spare parts to take advantage of the recent sharp increase in interest in military timepieces. Clear photos will help us be more definitive.

Let us know if you have trouble adding photos. It is not difficult if you follow the instructions. You will need to upload your photos to your computer, then to an image hosting website. There are a number of free ones and you can take your pick. I find photobucket.com the easiest one to use for me.

Many thanks, not sure why everyone thinks I'm new, been here a couple of years and always chime in on chronometer discussions. Nevertheless, many thanks for the welcome.

I'll try to post some pictures later, I'm afraid that I've got a Frankenwatch like Jim mentions, as it is not marked and the boxes are just way too good for the vintage of the movement.

Michael; do you by any chance have a Russian chronometer sans boxes to sell? I picked up inner and outer boxes yesterday and need a chrono w/gimbal ring and key thank you ,Tom

Michael, there were model 22´s supplied after the war to Jewelers and the like, these watches had no nomenclature on their caseback...so to call it a Frankenwatch would be carelessly wrong.
I have a collection of citations and documentation on my hard drive , all written by people with more knowledge than myself, confirming this. Here are a few extracts:

...After the war, production of the watch continued. It was a favorite of jewelers as a reference timepiece. I remember as a child seeing a model 22 in the front window of a jewelry store in downtown Tacoma with a sign saying "The Exact Time." People would stop and set their watches to the model 22 in the window. This sight was repeated all over the country for several decades after the war.

...they were still made after the war and many were sold to jewelry shops as thier standard timekeepers. The model 22 last appears in the 1963 catalog, but is still listed in the 1969 price list.

...However the ones that were never issued and were sold to Jewelers would have pristine boxes with no reason to believe they are reproductions. These often have a card inside the cover stating that the watch was providing exact time. They also lack the N in a circle on the back cover that shows that the Naval Observatory had rated and issued them.

Apart from that, I also own several model 22´s and one of them also has a clean caseback...so don´t worry, you´re in good company

Regards

Greetings,

Here are the pictures to review:

This is the box, closed

The open box

The face

Back of the Watch - See no inscriptions

Movement, note the serial 2F6227

Tom,

I have two Kirova chronometers, 3750 from 1959 and 25516 which is one of the last ever made. The 3750 was found in its original box (beat up pretty good) and was refinished by Gary Sellick (who does amazing work). 25516 was found in it's zinc original shipping box in Vladivostok and has never been run since the factory trials. It has an amazing finish on the inner box and the outer box cracked both in the corners and in the finish when exposed to the humidity here (it was since fixed by Gary).

Unfortunately, I do not have any available movements that I could sell. I know that they come up on eBay all the time, but anything that I've bought that way has had some type of "fix" done by the seller to make it run and I've always had to send them to Dewey Clark to get them back running the way that they should.

I wish that I had better news for you.

Werner,

I've got a gimbaled 22 that I bought from the son of a jeweler and Hamilton dealer that I know was used as the town time keeper, in fact that jeweler also had a Model 21 which was absolutely pristine as well which I also own. This 22 does have the correct time card in it.

The one above does not have the card, but it does have the original cloth sleeve that the watch came in (not shown above).

As for your non-engraved 22, does it have the contract engraved on the movement like mine (which is the 1942 contract)?

I'm still up in the air on this one, my gut is leaning towards that an older movement was put into a new case/box, which when I say new was definitely original and from a later movement that was sold after the war.

My gimbaled 22 has the original finish on the box and the finish on this box is the absolute same, it has not been re-done. I've seen Gary's work on these types of boxes and I can tell you that although close, his work does not exactly replicate the original, but is pretty darn close. That leads me to believe that this was one of the post-war boxes/cases which got joined with an older movement.

What I think is interesting is that the older movement is right in middle of the second run that was delivered to the Navy, so I'm having a hard time believing that it was surplus in some way.

I apologize for the quality of the pictures, photography is not my forte. I also apologize for the meandering thoughts on this, these types of deck watches are somewhat hard for me, as there is this possibility of the swap. At least in marine chronometers, it's very easy to spot what has been changed and swapped (which is less of a problem than pocket watches).

All of your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

quote:

As for your non-engraved 22, does it have the contract engraved on the movement like mine (which is the 1942 contract)?

Hi Michael, is that rearly the contract No.?
I´m throwing this question in because I have never seen a movement without a date and U.S. Navy-BU. Ships on it. I´d like to believe that Hamilton used up all the previously made movements (WW2) and cased them in newly made and non engraved cases.
I´ve been wrong before and I may be wrong again here but, I´d be glad to see a picture of one without the engravings though!

Here are a few pictures of mine, and post war Advertisement for the Hamilton watches...
1949 Advertisment

Werner,

I guess "contract" number is not the right terminology, most that I've seen have had some engraving on the back of the case that indicated the N number or the contract information. I'm just very curious why this one does not have any of this. I note that yours does not, however, yours is a very late serial number, where mine is a relatively early serial number.

I did run across this picture, which is a gimbaled 22 without the US Navy Bureau .... engraving on the movement.

At this time, I'm just going to go with it, I can't prove one way or another, so I'm going to take it at face value