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New Haven Movement and Case w/ Seth dial - Finally identified and running "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Dave in NC across this clock in my back yard.. I made a low ball offer and the guy took it. He came by the clock at a rural estate auction in Peoria Ill in 1977.

The bushings are tight and it looks like a coa and a chime spring will get her back up and running.

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
I reviewed some post here and am pretty sure this is a Seth Thomas logo on the dial.

Also mentioned that these clocks were real popular in the 1920's...were they residential, or business clocks?

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
I just finished a 1885 30hr OG Jerome weight driven shelf clock.

This movement has a lot more in common with the Jerome/New Haven than the photos I've seen of the Seth Movements.

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1892
posted
I am not an expert on ST but have had a few. My impression is that this is not a ST. The only thing (in my limited experience with ST) that looks like ST is what remains of the marking on the dial. Some things that bother me about it are solid escape wheel. Lack of ID on plates and pinned plates. The hands are very much like some that Waterbury used and if the dial appears to be a non original I would be thinking Waterbury .I have not been able to find that case in my resources (limited) although Waterbury have some that are close.
What kind of wood is it Paul and is there any indication of non original dial or movement in that case?
I get the impression it is pretty old (pre 1890) and I sure like it. I think it will make a great project.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will get in on this one.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
IHC Member 1736
posted
OK, So I'm a clock rookie! The springs attacked me when I pulled the top plate off even though they were let down all the way.

Now, they are two times larger than the hole they fit in to and I have no idea how I'm supposed to get them back in.

I did manage to find all the gears that scattered across the bench and put the thing back together minus the springs so I could understand how it all works.

Would one of you kind folks... when you recover from your laughter... please point me in the direction of a guide on how to manage these springs?

Seriously, I had no idea they would grow in to this!

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
Still laughing! Confession is good for the soul. Smile

Here's what I use to letdown the spring. Unfortunately my broom handle is now too short! And before that, I tie some wire around the spring to retain it within it's boundary in the frame.


Dave Turner


 
Posts: 1975 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
IHC Member 1736
posted
It's the whole "tie wire" thing I was missing the point on.

I reckon, to go back in, I will need to wind the spring on my bench winder, then put one of those heavy "C" shaped steel bands on it, so the tail will be accessible to drop over the corner post.
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
I was asked to add a photo of the pendulum. If you scroll up, you can see the pendulum spring/wire are a one piece design with a flat stirrup for this pendulum to hang in.

I think I'm missing the a bob... Based on some looking about in Timesavers and the picture below. I think there is supposed to be an 8oz bob on the end of the stick resting on the adjusting nut.

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
This 1912 Waterbury advertisement is pretty close.

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
What does it mean to say the clock is a "half-hour strike, gong"?

I get the gong part, that portion of the mechanism looks just like the Jerome... but it has a second wheel under the index wheel for the gong with a couple dozen little posts sticking up... is that the strike?

[edit] the post sticking up kick the arm of the hammer to strike the bell. This mechanism is a simple, 8 day time.
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
Think I can answer half of your question.
Half-hour strike, gong = strikes on the half hour, and has a gong, (coiled heavy spring), as opposed to a bell.


Dave Turner
 
Posts: 1975 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
Picture of Bill Carlson
posted
Paul,

Your lucky nothing happened worse that parts flying around. The springs look good. With out a spring winder, maybe you can somehow get the spring arbors back between the two plate without the gears and be able to wind up them backup and wrap a soft wire around them to keep them tight while you put the gears back. This is nice one to work on because of the size of the gears and open sides. You can get a bob from places like Timesavers, my favorite or others.It looks like the pendulum stick maybe patched, or maybe not. Good luck
This has been my favorite let-down tool. Or you can try the broom stick type if your not doing to many of these.

Bill


Bill Carlson


 
Posts: 431 | Location: Billings, Montana USA | Registered: February 05, 2007
IHC Member 1736
posted
Bill,

Thank you for chiming in. Sometimes the most intuitive answers are right there... and I just don't see them until they are pointed out.

I was trying to figure out how to modify the spring winder I bought for my Chelsea barrel springs to work for this installation.

Using the upper and lower plates to secure the springs and then proceed from there with the balance of the build makes a ton of sense.

I have new springs, a bob and a set of Ansonia hands that match the hands on the example in the advertisement above. Should be going back together this weekend.

Thanks again, Pault
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
I bought new springs from Timesavers, they came in brand new with wire and dropped right in once I figured out how to get the arbor in and hooked up.

The clock went back together great and runs well... with issues.

1. The pivot for the escape shifts left/right when it locks on either side... I'm assuming this means I need to replace the bushing for the upper escape pivot. Runs great, but looks scarey. I'm sure it isn't right. So far it isn't bad enough to affect the lock/unlock... but it is only a matter of time.

2. The pendulum oscillates weird. Sometimes it swings in almost a figure eight pattern rather than a clean left right... and other times it will pick up a wiggle like it is doing "The Queens Wave" as it swings to and fro. It still sounds good, just looks weird.
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1892
posted
Paul: I would suggest you check the suspension spring. From your picture it would appear to be the original one piece spring and rod. Check to ensure it is not twisted or kinked (happens often when clock is moved with pendulum left on). They can be worked a bit to straighten which often helps. If not a new replacement suspension spring should fix it. I like to keep the old one piece units if possible. Careful clocks are highly addictiveSmile
One more thing. I see mention of Ansonia hands. Have you ID it as an Ansonia movement. When I was searching befor I saw examples of Waterbury clocks with the hands that are on it now.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Kincardine, Ontario in Canada | Registered: November 25, 2013
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
quote:
I see mention of Ansonia hands. Have you ID it as an Ansonia movement. When I was searching befor I saw examples of Waterbury clocks with the hands that are on it now.

I'm inclined to think it could also be New Haven.


Dave Turner
 
Posts: 1975 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
IHC Member 1736
posted
Ansonia style hands are pictured in the 1912 Waterbury ad I found above. They look a bit more RR to me and are easier to see/read at a glance than the gothic/iron cross ones.

The movement is a simple, chimes on the hour, 8 day time.

It has an upside down bell, mounted with the dome bolted to the back wall. It is quite effective (loud). Much more crisp than the gong style.

I'll add a photo to this post when I get home tonight.

I am also convinced, that even though this thing is hard to nail down... it is all original. The stains and scars for the mounting blocks that hold the movement and bell are all matched up perfect.
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1725
posted
I am with Dave on this one as being New Haven.

Tim
 
Posts: 376 | Location: Conover, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: July 07, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
Still a mystery clock. Keeping excellent time!

I learned a couple lessons on timing. This clock came with a pendulum stick but no bob. I bought a bob from Timesavers and modified it to fit. 8oz seemed heavy, but the clock won't run with less than 6 oz... so 8oz is perfect.

The clock ran slow, so I lightened the bob up to 7oz and it made absolutely no difference. A quick google search landed me at abbeyclock.com

These kind folks have a great formula for plugging in my timing numbers and existing pendulum geometry... armed with these new numbers, I shortened the pendulum 1 inch and it came in to perfect time.

My Jerome and Company clock runs at 18 beats per 10 seconds... this one runs at 16 beats per 10 seconds.

The only other data point of interest is that the wooden circle around the bezel and dial is attached with square nails... similar to horseshoe nails. This was all loose and had to come apart so I could freshen it up and re-secure it.

The pendulum door glass was in 4 pieces. I had trouble sourcing new glass... so, I bought some new clear glass, cut it to fit, then glued the original glass over the top. The relief in the back of the door was plenty deep to accept the now, double thick glass and I get to keep the original art work. I also shot the dial with satin clear lacquer to lock down the peeling paint. It worked like a champ, stopped the degradation and is totally invisible.

 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
quote:
The pendulum door glass was in 4 pieces. I had trouble sourcing new glass... so, I bought some new clear glass, cut it to fit, then glued the original glass over the top. The relief in the back of the door was plenty deep to accept the now, double thick glass and I get to keep the original art work. I also shot the dial with satin clear lacquer to lock down the peeling paint. It worked like a champ, stopped the degradation and is totally invisible.


Nice work Cool
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
Yes it is!
Would never have considered repairing the glass like that. Good idea.


Dave Turner
 
Posts: 1975 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
IHC Member 1736
posted
Thanks guys,

It helped that the seller kept all the pieces in a little box...
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

In 2008, IHC Member Steve Middlesworth had a dial repaired done for his clock here...

Ball Watch Company Clock Restoration Project

Lindell provides the contact information…

_____________________________________________

The name that comes to mind for your dial work is Martha Smallwood, her contact information is...

The Dial House
3971 Buchanan Highway
Dallas, GA. 30157
Call: 770-445-2877
Fax: 770-443-5426

Dial_House@Juno.com

_____________________________________________
.
 
Posts: 4890 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
IHC Member 1736
posted
I appreciate the dial restoration info. If I could sort out the pedigree on this clock, I might consider taking it to the next level... but it has some terminal distress to the lower corners of the case and a few chinks in the veneer...

Rather than sink a lot of time and money in to it, I think I'll enjoy her just the way she is.

My girl paid good money for a pair of distressed Levi's... This clock came by her scars honestly.
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
Paul, this is from an 1878 clock catalogue.

 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
I also found this which is also shown in the 1878 catalogue as a time only or time and strike with the same calendar dial as above.

Perhaps this dial was used later.

Does your clock have a place for the calendar hand? Perhaps they tossed it when the dial was changed to ST.

 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
IHC Member 1736
posted
Lorne,

That's it! The wood bezel is a perfect match for my bezel with that groove.

No gearing or place for the calendar hand, so it is a simple time/strike.

Those hands are a perfect match too... so, off with the Ansonias and back to the Iron Crosses.

Just when I was losing interest in this one because I thought it might be a hopeless franken clock...

Now it is a simple matter of shopping for a period dial and I'm done.

How cool is that, thank you!
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Picture of Dave Turner
posted
Sounds like we're back on the right track!
Nice work Lorne.


Dave Turner
 
Posts: 1975 | Location: Wilson, North Carolina in the USA | Registered: November 15, 2011
posted
Hi Paul,Try Martha Smallwood.She did several dials for me and you can't tell them from original.Norm
 
Posts: 484 | Location: Georgia in the United States | Registered: August 04, 2010
IHC Member 1541
Picture of Lorne Wasylishen
posted
Dave pinned this clock as New Haven further up the hill, it was just a matter of finding it.
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: March 02, 2011
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