Hello, I am just starting out on clocks, I saw this clock in the charity shop and thought it would be a good one to start on when I took the movement out I sort of changed my mind if any one could I/D this for me and suggest a book I Would be very happy, the chimes are ok, I suspect the trouble is in the escapement it seems a bit twisted, there is no name on the movement but the numbers 16 and at the bottom 58587 any help greatly appreciated, I have the clock course from Tascioni,

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I think the main problem is with this escapment seems twisted

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Hi, That movement looks like a nice one. But I wouldn't recommend it as a first one to repair though. It appears to have some pretty strong springs in those barrels due to the gear reducers on the arbors.
Just from the photos I think I can see that the Lantern pinion on the strike fly has some messed up leaves on it. But the rest of the movement looks nice.
Its amazing what you can find in thrift stores.

You certainly picked a brute for your first clock Les!
Even if it never goes again, the charity shop will have appreciated your purchase, and you'll still get valuable experience with it!

Can't tell you the make, but it's a 3x train Westminster chimer!
(looking from the front) Centre train for time, Left train for the Westminster chimes and Right for the hour count.
All the chime drum and gubbins are missing though!

Keeping it simple, what you have there is 3x clocks in one, except only one has an escapement, so nothing to be afraid of except the mother of all pile of bits when it's totally dismembered!!

Take plenty of photo's before gutting it too, and keep each pile of train parts in their own heap, or you'll be scratching your head for hours figuring out what goes where.!

Those mainsprings pack a h*ll of a punch too, so if intending to strip it down, for Gawd's sake (plus to keep the air clean and fingers intact) let down the springs First and properly rather than just 'flipping' the ratchet clicks!

If you have a key, I'd recommend cutting a slot into a round door knob or decent diameter chunk of wood and slot the handle into that - that way you can control the unwinding while you hold off the click.
And, Don't even think about using a bit of broom handle to hold the key unless you're into sado masochism or have a grip like a gorilla - you'll char grill the palms of your hands from friction burns as it whips around in your hand!

If you don't have a key, jam the thing in a vise and use a brace and bit type drill handle to unwind it all - or buy a let down tool!!
Do Not mess with these, especially the chime and strike barrels!

Trust me on this, my very first (would make a good topic header) 'I learned about clock repairing from this' moment, and which I'll never forget, was with an old two train gong strike movement - a mere whimp at the side of your example!

There were no 'how to' books around in my neck of the woods, even in libraries when I started out in the early 90's, and I'd no idea where to look anyway, so it was mostly a case of s*ck it and see'
There was no internet either, or any such forums as this one to ask for advice, so folks are really spoiled these days.

Anyway, seeing the clicks and springs holding the ratchets on the barrels, and having messed around with clockwork toys as a kid, I decided these things must be holding some springs wound up ...... no doubt you can see where I'm going with this

Anyway, holding the movement in my left hand, I pried (of all things to pick) the chime barrel click away with a screwdriver!

I tell you, when that spring let go, that movement made a bang like a shotgun and launched itself clear across the room before the pain in my fingers even reached my brain.
Took hours for the worst of the pain to go away too, and kept my right hand and fingers warm for days after!
Can't remember now where the screwdriver went, but fortunately my wife wasn't at home at the time (I did the evil deed in the kitchen!)

The carnage to the movement was unbelievable!
Plates totally twisted out of line, bent arbors and stripped teeth galore - totally scrapped in a nanosecond!
I should have taken the poor crippled thing out into the garden and given it a Christian burial, but I kept it as a reminder of probably the dumbest thing I ever did with a clock!
Thankfully my fingers were left intact, and even the feeling came back after a while!

Anyway Les, as another 185 member said to me some time back about clock repairing ...... 'Welcome to the dark side'

John

Thanks for the Info Bill & John, I thought it looked a bit powerful when I took it out of the case; it was so big and heavy. And actually I was a bit worried about my fingers when I saw the size of the barrels, I’ve had them a long time, I have decided to put it to one side till I gain some more experience, will look for something smaller to start with, Glad to see you back John hope you where not caught up in those floods in France, My daughter said she will take me to a car boot sale next week I may see something there, will let you know if I find anything, Cheers for now
Best regards Les

Hi John I think these are the bits & bobs you said where missing, I took them out to get to the two great bolts that where holding the movement to the shelf which is an inch thick inside the case,Photo #2 I have ordered a multi letdown key but will keep them for somthing smaller for the time being,
I was looking through the book section on the forum about the best 6 books for a learner, i have ordered 2, ( The Clock Repair First Reader ) Philip Balcombe and ( The Clock Repairers Handbook ) Laurie Penman, What are your thoughts on them anyone Cheers for Now, Regards Les

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John,
Great story and how true it is. I had a similar experience with a 31 day movement, from a wall regulator. I bought it in a furniture store and it would never keep running and no one could seem to fix it. So I decided I would find out what it was made of. Luck would have it, I had it secured in a vise at work and proceeded to dismantle it. It didn't take long and it exploded. With the springs wound tight it was a bomb waiting to go off. I was unhurt but there wasn't a straight part left or any teeth on any wheel.
5 years later I met my wife and future father in law who taught me how to do it the right way.
That was 30 years ago and I still have my fingers and eyes, a few scars but nothing serious.
It was great to hear about someone else's experience along the lines of mine first.
My first clock overhaul is running very nicely and its a very late 1800 Japanese school house regulator. I still have it and enjoy it every day.

Les, we'd have grown webbed feet and gone deaf if the rain and thunderstorms had continued much longer, no floods fortunately, just well washed roads and a Very lush garden!

Good to see all the bits appear to be there for the clock, I'd give it a shot if getting kitted up with tools, and the let down tools are a good investment!

Don't know about 'the first reader' as a book, but Penman's publication is good - I refer to that one amongst others quite a bit, and still have his 'Escapements' book on my 'to get' list!.

Donald DeCarle's books are good too, and being plentiful, can be had quite cheaply.
I'll knock out a list of some stuff on my bookshelf!

These days, I tend to refer to them for the more esoteric stuff like setting out escapements to make new pallets rather than run of the mill repairs, but they're always good refreshers on repair techniques.
One of my books does cover Westminster types and is good for setting up the chime and strike work, which can be a pig to get right on some movements.

I will be getting rid of some books that I no longer use, I'll let you know about them if interested.

Bill, great to hear I'm not alone and that you got away with it unscathed too
Those hard earned lessons stay well ingrained in the brain!
Even now, countless mainspring repairs and swaps later, I still treat those things with considerable respect - you just got to experience one of those things letting go in your face to appreciate the caged up power in them!!

I'm ashamed to admit I can't positively remember my first clock repair, but it was either a 'Napoleon hat' Westminster chimer, or a 'Potts of Leeds' fusee gallery clock movement.

I'm much happier playing with weight driven stuff these days though, I've had enough excitement with springs to last a lifetime - and aspirin don't half make cuts and gashes bleed for a long time
I might change my mind the day I don't manage to dodge a dropped weight

John

John,
My honest preference would be weight driven, with a pendulum and one train.
I'm getting old and laid back I think.

Nah, just more sensible Bill!
Faffing around with hairsprings and pesky bits you can't see without a microscope gets a tad wearing after a while.
Makes a nice change to work on stuff you can grab with both hands.
Best bit is getting an C18th longcase keeping better time over a month than any RR watch ....... better go hide somewhere now ......

Les, some of the books on my shelf for you to peruse.
I've also added ISBN numbers so easy to check on Amazon or eBay.
All but one is available on Amazon UK and for a pittance - forget eBay!
There are a couple of eBay UK auctions running with no bids yet, but start prices plus shipping runs close to Amazon anyway.
Think I may be hanging on to my books for a while looking at those prices, worth more to me as a reference.

John

Book list.

D.DeCarle: Watch & Clock encyclopaedia. ISBN: 719800609

Britten: Watch & Clockmaker's Handbook Dictionary & Guide

D.DeCarle: Practical Clock Repairing. ISBN: 719800005

D.DeCarle: Clock & Watch Repairing (inc Complicated watches). ISBN: 273405659

W.J.Gazeley: Watch & Clockmaking & Repairing. ISBN: 0709049951

W.J.Gazeley: Clock & Watch Escapements. ISBN: 070904738X

Eric P Smith: Repairing antique Clocks. ISBN: 0715301063

Eric Smith: Clocks & Clock Repairing (Paper back). ISBN: 0718827082

Eric P Smith: Repairing Antique Clocks, A Guide for Amateurs. ISBN: 0175362712

Anthony J.Whiten: Repairing Old Clocks and Watches. ISBN: 0719801907

Eric Smith: Striking and Chiming Clocks - Their working & repair ISBN: 0715303708

The Keystone: Clock & Watch Escapements. (Reprint by Lindsey Pub's) ISBN: 1559181907

Thanks John, I use amazon for books had some really good buys off them, I think I agree with you about the pesky little bits in the watches, in fact I just want to get the hands set up for this last watch and I may call it a day. my eye sight is getting a bit dodgy now, that why I want to go into clocks, Got to keep the mind working, Its suprising when I first made contact a few months ago i did not know how to open the back of the watch, I now have a lot more confidence and a little less fear, still in the novice stage though and never to old to learn, Not bad for 80 even if i do say so myself, Daughter took me to a boot sale this morning, nothing there so I may have a go at the one i have, will probably muck it up and have to ask for help so stand by boys, Cheers for now Best Regards Les
P/S HAPPY FOURTH of JULY Bill

Thanks Les,
There is lots of noise from the fireworks going off right now. Lots of $$$ being burned up, that could be spent on a nice watch or clock.
Cheers!

Decided to take the bull by the horns and have a go, needs a good clean, just ordered some cleaning fluid that has no smell and is environmentally friendly,? so may be seeking help shortly Regards Les

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The way to go Les!
Be methodical and tidy and you'll be ok.

When you get the whole thing in bits, check the pivots and bushings for obvious signs of wear first.

Work on a single train at a time, placing individual wheels in their respective holes between both plates, then lift the arbors up, down and sideways to see how much slop there is.
Clean the pivots and holes first though, otherwise you could be fooled into thinking they're ok, when it's just crud and dried oil filling the hole up!

Plenty to keep you occupied there for a while!

John

Good luck Les,
Just take your time, and you will do OK.