November 06, 2010, 13:09
Daniel ShaoTechnical differences between 161 Type IIE, 161A Type IIB and 161A Type IIP
Hi,
I was just wondering if there were any technical differences between these three, 21-jewel, Elinvar equipped, Bunn Special movements?
I understand the 161 Type IIE is the first version of the 161 with Elinvar. I believe the 161A Type IIB was the next generation of this movement, followed by the 161A Type IIP (and the rare 161B). Besides the changes in engraving patterns and text, were there any technical changes made that either improved quality or reduced costs between the three movements in question? Was it related to a Hamilton policy change?
Thanks for your help.
Best Regards, Dan
November 06, 2010, 13:45
Steve MiddlesworthDaniel,
The Elinvar balance and hairspring was a major upgrade to the performance of the Bunn special 60 HOUR series that was brought in by the Hamilton factory. All the Elinvar models were the same as the Bunn Special Type III 60 Hour except for the balance assembly, verbage, and plate finishes.
They were really the same thing as the 163 series except for the 2 extra jewels.
Steve
November 06, 2010, 14:36
Daniel ShaoThanks Steve for clarifying this for me.
I knew the 161 and 163 varied only by the extra 2 jewels for the barrel, which doesn't affect the accuracy of a watch at all.
21-jewels have been used in Observatory Chronometers for decades and for good reason. It makes the 161 a great "value" compared to the 163 when looking for a timekeeper. (Rarity/exclusivity is obviously another story and a key factor in the value formula).
Best Regards, Dan
November 07, 2010, 07:42
Charlie Wintersthe 161 type IE was the first elinvar.
charlie
November 07, 2010, 08:38
Daniel ShaoHi Charlie,
I didn't know there was a 161 Type IE, I thought the first Elinvar version of the 161 was the Type IIE (I did notice that the first 163 with elinvar is classified as a Type IE and a 163 Type IIE version also existed, but the 161 only has a Type IIE, with no Type IE.)
I was primarily interested in knowing if there were any other technical changes made when going from the 161 Type IIE to the 161A Type IIB to the 161 Type IIP. Was it just a name and pattern change?
I know the gold jewel settings were replaced with pressed jewels when the 161A Type IIP transitioned to the 161B version.
Best Regards, Dan
November 07, 2010, 15:18
Edward L. Parsons, Jr.Well said Lin, that sheds some light on a complicated subject!
November 07, 2010, 15:30
Steve MiddlesworthAlso interesting is that although the 161 Type II E was classified by Meggers as a Model 15 which should have had the Interrupted (fifth) rayed pattern, it had the demaskeening of the Model 14, The Rayed (fourth) pattern....adding some more confusion.
Steve
November 07, 2010, 19:59
Daniel ShaoThank you Lin, Ed and Steve!
Its this type of minutia, detail, and at times quirkiness that makes collecting so interesting!
BR, Dan