This highly informative topic "IS THIS 163A MISMARKED?" originated in our exclusive "Avoiding the Pitfalls of On-Line Trading" back in June of 2004 and in order to share it with everyone we moved it here. Read this one closely and remember the lesson we all learned that day. Lindell


ebay Auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...Item&item=4903511764

Something looks wrong with this, is the 163A movement mismarked?

What do Illinois experts have to say about the movement?

EPILOGUE: Saw this: "The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing."

Hey Guys,

What was the eror in the listing?

All of my pictures of 163A movements show the same damaskeening pattern. Am I corect to say there is only one pattern?

Well, well, well...

Of course the fatal..."error in the listing"... was..."all the numbers match on this beauty"...but on this one we have every reason to conclude the movement numbers do not match. In all four movement images in that auction the balance is in motion so we do not know whether or not it has a split or solid balance wheel. With any "Elinvar" movement it is vital to check the balance wheel and be certain it is solid before bidding. The important lesson here may be, when you cannot see it clearly, just walk away.

Interestingly the run the auction movement 5456599 is from 5456001 through 5458000 are recorded as 163A Type II B which the auction example evidently once was. For example, I have 5456484 in my collection which is from that same run and it is shown below for comparison. Tony's question about damaskeening is an important one. All 161A and 163A Bunn Specials have three circular rings the entire diameter of the movement as shown in the image below. Other models lack those distinctive markings. Absence of a ring continuing through on the balance bridge and having the completely wrong black outline on the balance bridge did this one in. Look very closely and carefully compare the two examples shown below.


Below, carefully examine 5456484 which is correct...

Excellent job of sleuthing Lindell!! This one turned out to be a Frankenwatch on a grander scale than previously imagined. Now I wonder how the balance cock got changed in the first place. A simple mixup at the watchmaker's bench?

This is one of those "you live and you learn" lessons. This is one lesson I will never forget.
I liked this watch, if I wasn't so picky about the hair lined dial I would have bid on this auction. That was close, my dues sure paid for themselves on this one!!!

Jack and Ed,
I totally agree with your remarks. I learned more about 161A and 163A in this thread and thanks for expert sharing knowledge with those of us who want to learn all we can about watches. Yes, the dues I pay to IHC185 are one of the best bargins that I know of. Thanks Guys and a special thank you to Lindell.

WHEW !!!
I DID BID ON IT AND I MISSED THE BALANCE BRIDGE MARKINGS. THANKS LINDELL-YOU SAVED ME.
REGARDS,
FRED