I recently got an Illinois central pocket watch from Ebay. Twas not expensive and I only bought it to play with. I make it to be a 14 size. The book values it at $50. However to me it looks to be a bit better than that. It is double roller. It has a micrometer adjuster and 2 tone plates. It appears to have a gold train. Written on it from the top down is 17 Jewels, Illinois Springfield Watch Co, Illinois Central, 3372360.
The case is 25 year but is beyond help.
Dial has gothic hours with a number for each min as well and red for 5 mins. Marked Illinois Central. Is the book correct or do I have something else?
Steve

Stephan
According to Russ synders data base your watch is a 16 size 17j unadjusted grade 304 with about 70,000 reserved serial numbers.

Bob

Thanks Robert
I do find the watches from Illinois confusing.
Would all 70,000 have been marked Illinois Central like this one or would there have been a variety of different names. I checked the price guide and there is a 16s Illinois Central listed but it is a pin set. Mine is pendant set so I am still unclear exactly that this is. Double checked the diameter of the movement and it is 41.86 on the pillar plate behind the dial lip. 43.13 overall including the lip and 40.54 dia at the back. Book says 43.18 for 16 size and 41.48 for 14 size so must be 16 size. I have added a closer picture of the markings.
Thanks Steve

Stephan
I know 12 size much better.

Illinois probably made over 1,000 different private labels. While many are scarce only a few command a premium. In 12 size they include Ariston,Santa Fe,Benjamin Franklin,and Washington Watch Co.Maybe others can chime in on 16 size.

Bob

Illinois Private labels and Names almost are like the "watch of the month" series, I have one that is Factory engraved "Dictator".
Yours certainly deserves a nice case, and a cleanup to show the fine finishing work. That must have been a good time for making variants on the theme of pocket watches.
Meggers/Ehrhardt show your piece as;
1,000 Pc's this run; 1918-1919, 17j, unadjusted Gr 604, Model 6 Movement, with a total production of this grade (not name) @16,800 Pcs.

I have a 12-size Illinois engraved "Vim", wonder if there was a "Vigor"?

John,
I have a pair of cufflinks by the O'hara Dial Co. signed VIM. I believe VIM was either a bicycle company or a bike tire co.
Brian C.

Thanks all. Here is a picture of the dial. By the way we had a cleaning product in Australia called Vim. It was a white powder used to clean stains of enamel sinks. Much elbow grease was required.

Watch is running now and I am mucking about with the timing. Meanwhile I have another Question. As you can see the case is rough but I just noticed that inside the back lid in marked I. C. Special. I was about to get rid of the case in favour of a better one but had a sudden thought that it may be a special case that should stay with the movement. Is there an Illinois expert about who can advise me on this?
TIA

With the case signed too, you have a "triple signed" watch. I would insure that for twice the "normal" value, which puts this in "average condition at about US$125-175.00 in THAT case!
From the pictures, It needs some TLC, at least deserving of what it got when it was made.
The 12s Named Illinois' I have include;
A Lincoln
Ariston
Autocrat
Chrono
The Governor
The Leader
Railroad Dispatcher Extra
Rajah
Santa Fe
Stewart
VIM
Thay are all finely made, and their rarity deserves more attention from serious collectors who with to "preserve the breed".

Couple more 12sz Illinois named movements:
127
Roosevelt
Railroad Dispatcher Special

The Roosevelt is different in that the plates and bridges are plain, no damasceneing or decoration at all. I will post a picture later.

Here's the Roosevelt, 17-j adjusted, plates and bridges have a matte finish and the jewel settings look like brass to me. Serial number is 4709857. It's in a 14k green gf case by SWC Co.

Thanks David. I will keep the case. Perhaps I can find another body and use the 2 origional covers. I am sure the origional case body could be repaired but it would be a labour of love rather than a practical solution but I will keep it with the watch all the same. I am starting to think this watch belongs in an Illinois collection rather than my more general one. Perhaps you would like to swap me for that old father time you have.

Hi

Just picked up this Illinois Central watch. It is serial number 3114238. The seller stated it is a 16s 17j watch. The above comments have confused me as to the correct size of my watch. Is this a 12z or 16z Illinois Central Watch?

It has a Illinois Central dial (illinois is arched, Central is straight). The case is marked IC Special 25 year.

Keith, Yours is listed as a 16 Size, 17 Jewel Pendant Set Grade 304 which if double-signed has considerable value upwards of $300.00*. Stephan's s/n 3372360 watch is also a 16 size and being Triple-signed PLUS the Monty Dial goes into the US$400.00* + range. (*my opinion )

They are both great "lookers"

Thanks David for a quick responce.

The watch is marked on the movement, dial and the case is an IC Special 25 year. The seller did state the grade as 204 not the 304 that you referenced. I should have the watch in hand by next week at which time I will post more pictures.

That Serial number IS listed as a 204. Now here's the conundrum! According to the Meggers-Ehrhardt "Bible", ONLY 1 of those which is actually Marked "Railroad Special" is known to be in existence! So if yours is that serial number, it is only 1 of 2 known in that series!

BUT! Stephan's serial number translates to a grade 304, of which many more have been found. So is there an error in Meggers, or is the serial number actually correct, and you have a super-collector.

David

Could tell me what the following line means?
17j-ON7P-U-69,800-"304" (EA 468) (V2 198-3)....
17jewel open Nickel model7 pendant set ? quantity
grade 304 (?)(?)

Keith,

I can tell you that the "U" is for unadjusted. The "EA 468" refers to a movement diagram in the Megger's Illinois books. The "V" number I can't explain but if I find it I will let you know.

Steve

The codings mean; (an excellent system developed by Meggers Ehrhardt)

17j-ON7P-U-69,800-"304" (EA 468) (V2 198-3)

17j; 17 semi-precious Jewels
O; Open Face
N; Movement finish is Nickel
7; Factory model number or movement number
P; Pendant Setting
U; Unadjusted
69,800; Total quantity manufactured
"304"; Factory Grade number
(EA 468); EA numbered model identicifation drawing (of movement) which is included in all Ehrhardt volumes on watches.
(V2 198-3); Special reference to page and section of Ehrhardt-Megger's Volume 2 Illinois book where this is described.

Steve & David

Thanks for the information.

I will post more pictures when the watch arrives.

I have a 12s version of the Illinois Central that looks almost exactly like Stephan and Keith's watches. The bridging and damaskeening are virtually identical except for the smaller size.

The serial number of this one is 3141216 which makes it a Grade 404 which had a total production run of 65,910. Not sure how many of those were fancied up and labeled Illinois Central, but I would guess less than 10%.

John III

Another picture of the movement:

The dial is labeled Illinois Central. Nice set of matching blue Breguet moon hands even down to the second hand.

The 20 YEARS B+B Royal case may be a replacement, but it works nicely.

I received the Illinois Central and it does have the serial # 3114238.

Dial

Inside of case I.C. Special

Case Back

You have a rare one, it is #2 known to exist now in thet grade (unless this grade is a typo, as it does note that 204 was also used for "0" size movements.

Regarding the difference between a 12 size and a 16 size, the 16 size has the case screw on the barrel bridge and the 12 has the case screw on the (false) train bridge. Otherwise as they are both two-tone movements they look very much the same.

My Dials have the same signing but the Numeric font style is quite different and I have yet to service them both.

quote:

3114238

An updated database shows a 17j 16 size grade 204 with 1 run of 1,000

Bob

This 12-size Illinois Central hunter may not have as fancy a movement as the ones shown above, but it has a beautiful 14k multi-colored case, and a 21 jewel, 3 adjustment movement.