I just bought this watch for $120 and it arrived today. I bought it as a good looking but not running watch. I am in the middle of taking it apart and trying to figure out what is wrong.

First odd thing was that it rattled. It turns out that was because the 3 screws that hold the dial on had not been tightened. I don't know if that is a bad omen or not.

The balance staff is not broken. The watch winds up -- I just let the mainspring down and removed the movement from the case. Lucky for me I read that there is a trick to getting a 571 movement out of the case, namely carefully loosening the little screw near the transmission wheel until the pendant pulls out! Who would have expected this?

Now I am gently pushing the balance with a toothpick. It doesn't seem quite free. I wonder if the pivots are bent? What else should I be checking??

Well, I removed the balance cock (after releasing the hairspring), and took off the cock and the balance. The pivots look perfect.

One nice thing about the pendant coming out like it does is that you can put it back in the movement once it is out of the case and wind it up a bit. I do this and then gently move the pallet fork back and forth. Nothing! It is like no power is getting to the escape gear. Could it be that this thing just needs a good cleaning and oiling?? It is the shiniest, newest, cleanest LOOKING watch I have yet to fiddle with, but it seems dry as a bone.

Tom,
I would start with a good cleaning and fresh oil..Also check the mainspring it may be set and need to be replaced..Even though the movement look clean the oil on the pivots dries up after a few years and will not let the train move freely...

Tom,
Another thing I have found out about those 571's is when you are putting it back in the case or just putting the stem back in, is not to tighten that screw that holds the stem in to tightly...They seem to strip out fairly easily..Just a word of caution...

Thanks Gary for the tip.

Continuing on with this tonight -- removed the bridge that holds the escape and fourth wheel.
After removing those, everything is moving freely.
Just reinstalled the fourth wheel, and it all moves fine with that in place.

The escape wheel is the problem it seems. It won't just drop into its hole in the jewel like the fourth wheel. In fact I cannot even get it back into its hole at all (but it was in there just a minute ago!) This seems to be the problem. The question is whether a cleaning will fix this. Inspecting the jewel and pivot under the microscope don't show any problems.

Even dirty the escape wheel should go back into the jewel it came out of. But make sure not to force anything.

I agree Jim. It has to go back in there. But I am hoping things will go easier after a cleaning.

And I have decided to go the whole hog with a full teardown and cleaning. The back plate is now soaking in naptha (I have gone over my watch budget for the month, but February first I will be ordering a gallon of L and R extrafine and a gallon of rinse #3). For now naptha will do no harm and get me by I think.

My guess is that this watch has seen little if any service in quite a long time. And it has seen little use. I can see tiny white crusty deposits around some jewels under the microscope.

Well, I am having a hard time believing this, but it is all back together and running. The fix was just cleaning and oiling. As near as I can tell the escape wheel was essentially glued in place by old oil and that is what stopped the watch, in combination no doubt with friction at all the other pivots. I was wrong about the escape wheel pivot not going into the hole -- I was just not used to cap jewels and was expecting it to drop farther.

Well, I am not out of the woods yet. It only runs for 5-10 minutes before it stops. A shake will start it going again. Hmm - time for bed.

Tom, I would inspect all the train wheels for tiny pieces of crud.

Gary

Tom,
I agree with the other Gary sounds like there is some girt or grime on some pivots or jewels...Gary..One other thing you might look for is a cracked jewel...

No cracked jewels, and haven't found any crud yet, however ....

It decided to take off running and is still going with 13 hours on the go so far. Not sure what to say at this point, maybe there was something I couldn't see that has been dislodged? Time will tell, eh?

Well now it has just been humming along for over 30 hours and keeping good time - I have wound it twice during that interval. It is tempting to celebrate, but ...

I never feel entirely confident about something that mysteriously fixes itself. Have any of you veterans seen a case like this where a watch suddenly just decides to fly right?

The symptoms are consistent with fluff or crud floating around inside the movement--if it lands on a tooth the watch stops, if it falls out it will run fine. The only way to be sure to fix it is to clean it again and be surgically clean (okay, a bit of hyperbole, but you get the idea) with reassembly and oiling.

Tom, do you peg wood the jewels? I had one that did the same thing.. Old watch guy told me to make sure and peg wood the jewels.. After I thought it was clean.. I pegged the jewels and they were still dirty.. After pegging, it runs perfect... Just a thought

Well it is just humming along. Ran 48 hours dial down, then 48 hours dial up. Now it is in my pocket and keeping good time (actually it had gained a couple minutes in 96 hours -- but I just guessed and put the regulator in the center when I reassembled it). So I gave the regulator a turn this morning.

I did my best to pegwood the jewels, but you gotta remember I am new at this. I tried using both some official pegwood I ordered, as well as some toothpicks I carefully sharpened. The pegwood is less fibrous. Tricky to shave a needle like point that would fit the small jewel holes, but I did the best I could and worked both sides.

I have to agree with Evan, and those were my thoughts. Something has become dislodged and/or the new oil has loosened some things up after some time to soak into anything my cleaning did not remove. Whatever it is is still in there and the only thing is another cleaning to get it out (and being really clean to avoid introducing anything new). The bigger worry is if new oil has loosened up deposits, I now have contaminated oil in vital spots, and I don't want that.

Been a whole week now just humming along keeping great time. This may not be much to you, but for me to have taken this thing apart and get it back together and running simply amazes me. Have been carrying it with me everywhere the past 3 days.

The mainspring probably ought to be replaced. It runs rather weak, but you would only know it if you opened it up and watched the balance wheel.
Anybody know what mainspring I should order for an Elgin 571 BW Raymond?

Tom,
I know how you feel. It's great to be able to put an old watch back together and see it run again. I've had a few small successes myself.
I think? the mainspring you need is a 6164. I believe CasKer has it.
And I'm sure others here can probably direct you.

Tom,

I came in a little late, but when you get one like that, and your not sure what it might be, one thing to do is, once you have taken the balance cock out, take the pallet fork out and wind it up a couple of turns and see if the train is running free. You can also put the balance back in "without the pallet fork" and see how free the balance is turning.

This is something you should do after you clean a movement while you are putting it back together also. If it is really clean, and oiled properly, you should see the train wheels turn down and then actually go back the other way just a bit. The balance should turn really free also, like it could go on forever!

Just some little hints that can save a lot of time if there might be a problem.

Regards,
Larry

Hi Tom, just another tip, it is better not to oil the pallet fork jewels, it can reduce the rate of your watch.

quote:

it is better not to oil the pallet fork jewels, it can reduce the rate of your watch.

Ha! That is funny. That is the one thing I neglected to oil and the watch is running a bit fast with the regulator near center.

I have heard that some people recommend not oiling the pallet fork pivots, but I did think that the thing to do was put a touch of oil on every other escape wheel tooth and thereby oil the pallet jewels.

And Larry, thank you much for the tips. I did some of what you suggest backwards as I assembled the watch I watched the train run down and go reverse a bit (as I had read about that), then in went the pallet fork ...

Spinning the balance though, I'll remember that for the next one.

quote:

I think? the mainspring you need is a 6164. I believe CasKer has it.

Thanks Dave, and a google search for "elgin 6164 mainspring" confirms that. In fact it finds the following on the dashto site:

Genuine Elgin 16s mainspring #6164, fits grade 571 and related, genuine, white alloy.