I have Waltham size 16 15j.that I just clean
watch was not working before and after cleaning ticks for few seconds and stops
I clean and check all gears no damage or bent on them
mainspring barrel looks good too.
staff is not broken or bent ,all jewels are good not cracks or chip
hairspring is not rubbing on balance arm
so what is causing the watch not to run?
and yes watch been demagnetized.
any help?

how does train spin without mainspring barrel?

Peter,
There are so many possibilities, but the key to resolving any problem is isolation. I would start with this. Let down the mainspring and take the balance assembly off the movement and then remove the pallet. Wind a couple of clicks and watch the escape wheel and train. It should run smoothly and if a really good mainspring is installed and everything in the train is good, when the escape wheel runs down it should then run backwards a bit before stopping. Next place the balance assembly on the movement without the pallet. This test should have been done on the bare plate, but since you already have the watch together, you can do it this way. With the balance assembly installed the balance should be very free to move in any position you hold the movement. You want to set the balance in motion with a twist of the wrist and watch it oscillate. It should oscillate smoothly and for at least a full minute before coming to a smooth stop with no jerkiness detected. At this point is a good opportunity to observe that the roller jewel is centered between the banking pins when looking in a straight line from the escape wheel thru the pallet jewel. If you haven't found the problem at this point, put the pallet back in without the balance assembly and wind the watch a few turns and look at the lock and drop thru the two holes in the plate placed there for that purpose. You should be able to trip the pallet fork back and forth gently with a pin and look thru the holes to see that the pallet jewel to escape wheel tooth bite is good and that each tooth locks and drops properly. This by no means is a complete list of all the possibilities, but I hope this helps get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks Roger I have done the train with out fork and did as you describe run nice and smooth and went backwork befor stops.
I also did the balance wheel with out hairspring and fork and it did spin free with one puff from dust blower.
once the fork was install and mainspring wind fork did snap back and forth with help of peg wood
Harispring is not rubbing so can be the pallet jewels not being set correctly?
or hairspring is not in correct position to the balance wheel?

You should do your balance test again with the hairspring installed, no pallet fork and see how it oscillates as in my above post, then check location of roller jewel at rest. It needs to be fairly well centered for approximate beat position. Without a timing machine you can only estimate beat, but you can hear it if it is way off. Check for a loose roller jewel or a crooked roller jewel that could bind in the fork. I have also seen roller jewels set incorrectly and instead of going between the fork, bind on top of the fork. Does not sound like pallet jewel problem, but you should check for possible loose pallet jewels whenever a watch is serviced as well as the roller jewel.

ok so the roller jewel should stop between two banking pins when the fork is remove?

Roger,

Great summary of assembly check downs... Thank you for taking the time to put it together.

Peter,

This sounds very similar to what I was up against with my Pocahontas last week. It took awhile to figure out that the pallet was just, not quite, clearing the trailing toe on the escape wheel on the left hand jewel. It was so close, it would clear 9 out of 10 times, then hang up. I opened the outboard banking pin 5 degrees and it came to life.

I was able to study it and get the detailed visual I needed with the balance out, by "ultra gently" nudging the tail of the pallet left, then right, one click at a time, studying the pallet jewel relationship to the escape. Sometimes it would release, sometimes it would nudge the escape backwards... it didn't make sense until these guys coached me through it.

ok thanks Paul I will look at the escape wheel
and play with the pins if I see some nudging

Peter,
In reference to your question about the roller jewel at rest. Yes, it should lie between the banking pins. When everything is back together with the mainspring let down you should also be able to observe the pallet arm lying between the pins and not resting on one or the other. Paul also makes a good point about the banking pin adjustment, but if you check the lock and drop as suggested and you have good escapement then you shouldn't mess with the banking pin adjustment.

well here what I found no pallet fork just balance wheel with spring the roller jewel stops on left banking pin if you look from balance assembly (Balance cock towards you)
so should I adjust the roller jewel to be between those banking pins?

You should be sighting in a straight line looking from the escape wheel jewel thru the pallet wheel jewel between the pins. The roller jewel should appear between the pins. If it is not, the correction is made by turning the hairspring on the staff using the slot in the hairspring collet. The hairspring collet is a friction fit over the staff and should not be loose. The hairspring is probably the most delicate part of the movement so great care must be taken when working on and around it.

There is a special tool for rotating the hair spring collet. If you don't have one, I can shoot you a picture of one tonight.

ok so the hairspring should be move not the roller table
here is my tool for hairspring

There is a tool that looks like a thin hollow stake with a nib on the end. This will fit over the pivot/staff and rest flat on the hair spring collet. The nib fits in the slot in the collet allowing you to rotate/index the collet on the staff without stressing the hair spring.

If you do not have this tool, removing and reinstalling the hair spring is your next option, but risks bending the hair spring, loosening or springing open the bight of the hairspring collet...

In the same add you pulled this photo from, what you are looking for is in the next photo... it is called a collet wrench.

send picture or link please

Likadis

ok problem #2 watch runs but the hands will not advance what will cause to do that?

Peter,

Sounds like the cannon pinion might be loose, if the hands will not advance while running.

Peter,

You will need a staking set with the proper stump and stake or a canon pinion tightening tool to do this. If you have a staking set, there should be a V shaped stump and a chisel shaped stake. You place a pin inside the canon pinion (IMPORTANT) and lay the canon pinion in the V shaped stump. With a chisel shaped stake you LIGHTLY tap on the side of the canon pinion to make a small indentation. You can also use a pointed stake that isn't too sharp on the end. Do NOT attempt to do this without the proper tool(s) and don't forget the pin inside the hole of the canon pinion or you WILL destroy this part.

Also, please tell us what ultimately fixed your first problem.

well the watch was running on my bench for few hours till I pick it up and now stops.
I have those tools otherwise I will not try with out proper tools.
So back to square one with that watch
watch will run face up face down but once you move it it will stop.
fun fun fun.

Peter,

Can you get a decent macro shot of the balance assembly, top and bottom?

I have 1899 and 1908 parts watches I can compare your photos to.

Paul

Peter,

If frustration gets the better of you, I suggest a couple of things. Either put it aside and look at it again with fresh eyes or if you like, send it to me and I'll be happy to look it over for you.

Roger