I've just been asked to see if I can find out anything about this watch and I noticed it is certainly not common in my opinion. The escapement is unusual I believe it is a spring detent but am not sure as I haven't seen one before, if anyone could confirm or deny this it would be great. I've posted a slow motion YouTube clip ( Here) and the pictures should help. The case is a beautiful 18 karat one with detailed designs which seem to include some type of bird, maybe a phoenix. The dial is just as nice being extremely intricate and well made. The watch did come in a Longines box but I can't find any markings. I apologise because the pictures I've taken don't really do the watch justice, but they were the best I could take at the time. Any information at all would be appreciated. Thanks,
Joe

Front of the watch.

Back of the watch.

Dial

Movement.

This one shows my reasoning for saying it's a spring detent. The small hairspring in the first picture seems to fit with what I know, as does the shape of the escape wheel teeth.

Hi Joe

Pretty nice watches you come along .

The escapement is indeed a detent escapement but it is the pivot detent escapement (or pivoted detent escapement).
It is a bit of confusing:

- a pivot detent escapement has a pivoted lever, a balanced rocker moving on the pivot and hold by a small 'hairspring' to allow a proper locking/unlocking.

example

- a spring detent escapement is 'springy' itself, a long thin piece of spring steel fixed at the very end opposing the balance wheel.

example

the escape wheels are the same in both cases.

swiss made ca 1880

Regards
Gerald

Thank you Gerald, that makes sense and I was thinking about the same in terms of age, if you recognise anything else then I'd be happy to hear, thanks,
Joe

I have a very similar pivot detent chronometer: same sort of fancy 18k case, same sort of fancy embossed dial, same style of movement, same lack of signature. Mine likely is in better condition than yours, but yours still is a very nice watch.

You don't show a photo of the cuvette. My watch's cuvette does not identify the maker but it does say "Geneve. Chronometre a Renversement. No. 63488." After this, there is a symbol of a left facing key. "Chronometre a Renversement" means "detent chronometre." What does the cuvette of your watch say, if anything?

Here is a photo of my watch's case.

Here's its dial.

Here's its movement.

Sorry I haven't replied I've been away from my computer for a while, your watch is very similar especially in terms of the dial, the cuvette does say something but I can't quite remember what, although I'm sure it isnt that. I'll try to get a picture and post it over the next few days.

Here's the photo, sorry it took too long, like I said it isn't the same as yours and "Remontoir" just means it is key wind. I did also notice what looks like a makers mark in the back of the case, possibly RF, does your have anything like that? Ill try to post of photo of that soon too. Thanks,
Joe.

The case of my watch just has serial number and 18k markings, but no maker's mark. The cuvette on my watch is quite different from the cuvette on your watch. See the photo below.

("Remontoir" does not mean "key wind"; it's meaning has evovled, but most lately was used to refer to keyless stem winding.)

Yes I can see the differences, but I still think they likely originate from the same place, and sorry about the remontoir mistake I meant to write what you said, I may not be experienced but I can still recognize a key wind . Thanks,
Joe

Thought you may be interested to know that my watch has been identified as a longines calibre 20R by their brand heritage team.

quote:

longines calibre 20R

I can't find anything out about that calibre, but I did find this Lequin-Yersin, but it has different winding gears.

My guess is that some entity made the ebauche of these pivot detent chronometers, and different watchmakers finished them to their own specifications. I don't think of Longines as being an ebauche maker, but perhaps it was.

You may well be right, but another difference is that mine is marked as 20J, but the one you linked to is 19J. I'm having trouble finding anything about that calibre too, although the longines team also specified that the watch I have was purchased in 1871 by their technical director Jacques David.

Whoever made these watches clearly did it to a high quality, and if I were you I might consider writing to Longines and asking about your watch as well, just in case.

Joe

That's good news that your watch was traced to the manufacturer and dated as well !

In the late 60's eaerly 70's the company that later became Longines was in a 'transition-state' from the old system of finishing raw movements from others to the modern system of a complete making of watches with the help of machines. Jacques David visited the Philadelphia exhibition and examined the 'american system' of watchmaking. With his insights and the vision of Ernest Fracillon Longines raised from a small traditional manufacture to a modern company.
I agree with Ethan that they finished the given watch using an ebauche of another (unknown) source.

Regards
Gerald

Thanks Gerald, do you know anything about the calibre 20R because I'm finding it extremely difficult to find any information about it, and you always seem to know where to look. Thanks,
Joe

If anywhere then in the 'bible' of Longines: a book named 'At the Heart of Industrial Vocation' by Patrick Lindner, published on occasion the 175 anniversary of Longines.
I don't have the book or acces to it and I have no information about 20R.

Gerald