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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Open to the World RESEARCH FORUMS Ball Watch Company Research Forum Ball Marked "SINGLE ROLLER" 18s Watches
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Open to the World RESEARCH FORUMS Ball Watch Company Research Forum Ball Marked "SINGLE ROLLER" 18s WatchesGo | New Topic | Find-Or-Search | Notify | Tools | Reply to Post | |
Hello, I found this at the bottom of some old standard gauge Lionel Trains I bought today at the swap meet. While search to see what it was that I had found I came across this wonderful site. It's # 170162.  | ||||
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Here's the movement.  | ||||
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| IHC Life Member |
Randy, It's a Hamilton Ball, 150,000 produced, but only 1,000 in 1901 when this was produced according to the online database. Movement Serial Number:170162 Estimated Production Year: 1901 Run Quantity: 1000 Size: 16s Jewels: 21j Movement Configuration: Openface Movement Finish: Nickel Model: 0 Movement Setting: Lever Adjusted: Yes Adjusted to Positions: 6 Railroad Grade: Yes Notes: Ball | |||
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Randy & Evan Actual run quanity was 300, 170101-170400. Its an 18 sz Single Roller Double Sunk Ball & Co. The only other place you see these is in the 90xxx run. 90220 wonderful find, Congrats & happy hunting | ||||
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| IHC Life Member |
I'll defer to Bill as the online database I used is often notoriously inaccurate, and I am still learning. | |||
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It would make a nice addition to anyone's collection. Give us a heads up if you decide to sell it here on IHC or anyplace else. Many of us would be interested in it. happy hunting | ||||
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I want to thank everyone for the info, and if I do decide to let it go it will be posted here first. | ||||
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| Life Member |
Please add # 90557 17J Marked: Adjusted and Single Roller Ball & Co. Official RR Standard double sunk dial with inscription at 6'oclock.(small chip) Hamilton display case I need a regulator whip spring and screws if someone has a spare or source.  | |||
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| Life Member |
movement  | |||
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Administrative Assistant |
Richard, Thank you for providing your movement number. You will see it in the database compiled at the beginning of this topic. One of the great features of IHC185 Membership is the ability to participate in our BUY AND SELL HERE, THE IHC185™ TRADING MART where you can ask for parts. Please do consider becoming a full member! Debbie  | |||
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Richard I only follow the Ball and Co Watches so am not sure what happens with the Ball Watch Co after serial #170400. There are 300 DS Single Roller between 170101-170400. Another 150 between 90600-90750 And approx. 100-150 of them scattered in between 90201-90600. In this run, the ones that aren't marked Single Roller are marked "A" and Adjusted. If you want to sell, you can [join IHC and sell it here.] Otherwise, enjoy your watch and happy hunting | ||||
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| Administrative Assistant |
One of the great features of IHC185 Membership is the ability to participate in our BUY AND SELL HERE, THE IHC185™ TRADING MART where you can ask for parts, buy, sell or trade. Please do consider becoming a full member! Dr. Deborah L. Irvine IHC Administrative Assistant Membership and Marts Coordinator Contact eMail: ihc185@roadrunner.com  | |||
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pics of my 18s single roller...  | ||||
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dial without bezel, no hairlines. both hands are plum in color with some tarnish.  | ||||
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movement  | ||||
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rear case cover  | ||||
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Joseph What a sweet example! Amazing how well some of these have survived. happy huntijng | ||||
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Came across this ball in a lot I got. Serial number is 170218. Single roller marked BALL & CO CLEVELAND. I know nothing about these watches. The case is a STURDY NICKEL SILVER. THE dial is a double sunk HAMILTON dial. Is this not the orginal case or dial? Interested in any info on this. Also not in the data base. Pictures are below | ||||
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Ball [Movement number: 170218]  | ||||
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Ball 170218  | ||||
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Joe It is definitely the wrong dial, Ball watches did not come with Hamilton marked dials. It should look like the first dial in this topic on Lindell's movement 170162 that shows the correct dial. The replacement style case you have is of a much later issue than the movement. happy hunting | ||||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Hello Lindell or anyone interested in a newly discovered Ball Single Roller, I haven't posted lately but am always lurking but I'm curious about a watch. I have just acquired this watch, a Ball Hamilton 18S ORRS signed Single Roller marked Ball Watch Company, Serial # 170107. I do not yet have it in hand but should have it soon. Lindell stated above that the lowest serial numbered Ball Watch Company example he's seen is # 170704. This one goes back almost 600 numbers earlier, and we see many higher numbers still marked Ball & Co . Makes you wonder about the system they used and decisions on which movements were to be finished. This example has a horrible, looks like a worn and flaking metal dial simply marked "Ball". It is SS. It's housed in a well worn but attractive Keystone low shouldered base metal case with no visible previous screw marks. What say you ? ©harles | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Oops, I forgot to attach the pic... ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
My new acquisition #170107 arrived today. Such a sad face on a beautiful movement, this one has obviously worked hard for it's living! The dial was probably replaced many years ago by an economical owner who may have damaged it and couldn't afford the proper replacement. (my theory) Likewise, a plastic crystal has replaced the glass one maybe broken in the same accident. Judging by the condition of the dial and crystal, it seems to have had many more useful years! There is a distinct ding in the front bezel right around the 5 marker but the bezel still unscrews on and off easily. The main reason for this post is the issue of the serial number and the "Ball Watch Co." markings. Higher up in this same thread is a Single Roller serial #170162 which is marked like mine. We also see #170218 marked "Ball & Co." Is mine the lowest serial # documented "Ball Watch Co." movement yet seen ? I have removed the barrel plate and the numbers do match. This watch runs very strong with great balance motion. What say you ? ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Front ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Bezel off ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Matching numbers ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Just as the original owner, I would be interested in any leads on a more acceptable dial for this diamond in the rough. Thanks for looking. ©harles | |||
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| IHC Member 2030 |
Nice photos Charles No idea as to the correct dial, in my opinion, that dial is fine Great idea on changing to glass christal May be original? | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
That dial is sad, but for now I like it as an example of a watch with a lot of character showing! For how grimy it looks I'm amazed at how strong it runs. I think the case and movement are original, this was a real working watch, and has probably been lying around for 40 years or more. A great candidate for restoration in my opinion. ©harles | |||
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| IHC President Life Member  |
Hi Charles, I always enjoy your posts, you raise interesting points. The watch you found recently needs a case, hands and of course the dial to be an original style and therefore correct. It is quite likely that in recent years someone "picked it clean" of case, the hard-to-find hands and the near-impossible to find dial. Possibly you can run-down the individual components, you may have to "settle" for best that can be located. Study the image below this post and other correct examples shown earlier in this topic. Problem details... Your present case is a replacement from 30 to 50 years later than the movement, the worn-down crown attests to the fact someone used it a great deal, how much or how little with this movement is anyone's guess. Those are generic replacement hands commonly found in watchmaker vials. Metal dials for Railroad Watches became available a decade or so later than your movement, beginning around 1910 and yours is a dial repainted various times, in a style dating to the mid 1920s or later. You might consider trying to find correct case, dial, hands and a few screws individually to eventually make a correct example of yours. Perhaps begin with "WANTED TO BUY OR TRADE" HOROLOGICAL ITEMS advertising (free with your membership) and post the image from this post to explain what you are seeking. (Parenthetically... Another point of interest, the case on 170249 shown below this post and elsewhere is an early "Ball-Model-Style" case from before their 18-size cases bore the "Ball Model" marking. The bow, crown, and particularly "reflecting-ring" around the dial are features usually found together on cases Ball ordered as part of his exacting specifications. At the time 170249 was produced only the 16-size were beginning to go out in marked-as-Ball-Model Cases, those markings on 18-size were still a few years away.) Your observation about the early "Ball & Co." for "Ball & Company" versus later "The Ball Watch Co." for "The Ball Watch Company" markings once again proves my oft-stated point of how these were not produced, finished, cased, timed or sold in anything approximating chronological order. And it also shows there are additional examples with additional fine-tuning details we are finding today that were not evident when this topic began practically fifteen years ago. Your 170107 moves numbers downward and adds to our ever-expanding data on these fascinating watches. We can see that in the short turn-of-the-century time in which these marked as "Single-Roller" movements were produced "Ball & Co." slowly evolved to "The Ball Watch Co." along with other changes in markings. And the fact those marking changes did not occur chronologically, as proven by the movement numbers, is further evidence of how much manufacturing methods and business practices have changed over the last hundred-twenty years. Notice also how at times an earlier dial signature may have been combined along with a slightly later movement signature. As collectors, we prefer everything to match, but we must also consider and allow for variables. Example 170704 is a rare 21-Jewel movement (not a "Single-Roller") but with "Ball Watch Co" signature on movement and dial it was the lowest numbered example with both those features I had yet seen and it can be found chronologically in detail at the "Early Ball-Hamilton 18-size" link immediately below. Further study of these and other features may prove interesting in... Early Ball-Hamilton 18-size Images Later Ball-Hamilton 18-size Images ...and other related topics. This age of computers in which we live dictates everything is recorded precise, click-by-click order with no deviation. The manufacturer can tell you exactly how many vehicles like the one you drive were produced and the precise moment when yours rolled off the line. But, back then, such infinite details did not matter, they never even occurred to anyone, they were just assembling and selling watches. Today we obsess over things that they never even noticed, but that obsession over details is much of the fascination in this wonderful hobby of ours. Thanks to Charles and everyone else whose curiosity helps to drive us deeper as... "We learn something new every day". For those new to this, getting into details of "Ball Marked SINGLE ROLLER 18s Watches" one must begin at the beginning for a full appreciation of just how unique they are and why we draw attention to them. Hopefully some of these musings might be of help. Lindell  Correct style case, hands and dial on 170249 as an example...  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
Lindell, Thanks for chiming in on this one, your input is greatly appreciated by me. This is my first Ball, I've previously been a bit intimidated although always fascinated by the whole Ball phenomenon. Very, very interesting but so far I've been content to admire and view from afar. This guy Ball truly was a larger than life character who's legacy continues to unfold! I now see that you certainly are correct about this watch being "picked clean". The task of restoring this to acceptable collector condition would be daunting. My original assessment about a sad face on a beautiful movement still holds true! I'm still happy with it given the price paid. This is my small piece of the Ball legend and I'll keep it as such. I'll be keeping my eyes open for suitable parts if and when they may show up. I spent a few hours refreshing myself with the links you provided above on the Ball research forum threads. Some amazing watches and stories there! Especially when you consider that I believe most Ball watches were originally purchased as a working tool of the trade, not as a drawer dwelling status symbol. As an aside, I have in my collection a Hamilton 990 ser #798296, when I recently looked it up in the Hamilton logs I see that it was originally sold to ... guess it ... yes, Webb C. Ball ! I was startled. These are the little factoids that I really love about this hobby and keeps one interested ! I know I needn't explain that to you but it's something for the newer generations to realize. Your knowledge and contributions to the hobby will be recognized and appreciated for a very long time ! ©harles  | |||
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| IHC Member 1124 |
The Hamilton log... see bottom line.. ©harles  | |||
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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Open to the World RESEARCH FORUMS Ball Watch Company Research Forum Ball Marked "SINGLE ROLLER" 18s Watches
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Open to the World RESEARCH FORUMS Ball Watch Company Research Forum Ball Marked "SINGLE ROLLER" 18s Watches©2002-2023 Internet Horology Club 185™ - Lindell V. Riddle President - All Rights Reserved Worldwide
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