I have a partical 16 size 21 jewel marked ball open face movement. The serial number is easy B631898 and that's on both plates balance cock bridge and train bridge. Which suggest it's is a hamilton.

I have not been able to determine what I have. So I have a few question I hope this body can answer.
1.Will ball hamilton plates fit on ball waltham plates and will the screw holes line up. properly
2. Did ball make any 21 jewel waltham 16 size that did not have the ball round madallion on the movement.
3. what model waltham movement did ball use for the waltham ball,since he used 992 hamilton parts for the 999.

Here are the pics of my watch:

pic3

pis3

pics 4

pic 5
So, here are my pics, Now can anyone anyone explain to me which I have here. Is it a Waltham or is it a Hamilton. Now if it is a Hamilton, which movement did Ball use cause it sure in not a 992.

1. No, in general, the plates will not interchange between Ball-Walthams and 16S Ball-Hamiltons.
2. Yes, the later 16S Ball Hamiltons had no medallion.
3. I think they called it a model 99, not to be confused with the model 1899, which has a totally different plate layout.

For more info, do a search from the main page.

I know yours is a Ball-Hamilton from the movement number B631898 and the fact that there's no medallion. There is no corresponding "twin" Hamilton movement for this watch. That didn't happen until later, with the 992B and the 999B -- those watches have interchangeable parts.

Ed, Thanks again, I thought so, as stated in earlier post but what model movement hamilton. No hamilton I ever saw used the pallet bridge assembly as this one. Any ideas I am at a loss here.

I have what I THINK is a ball hamilton parts movement that I am restoring with the intent to sell to one of my customers. The dial side plate however will not accept the standard 992 pallet bride, but the plate fits perfect with the lower plate and all screw holes line up perfect.So I am at a loss on what to do . Thats why I asked if ball used different hamilton movements and if so what did they use. I have never seen hamilton use any other pallet configuration other than the standard round ones you find on 992 for their 16 size 21 jewel watches.

The only place you are going to get replacement parts for this watch is another Ball-Hamilton movement of comparable vintage, i.e. a parts movement. But that's what you already have here, a Ball-Hamilton parts movement. Get 2 or 3 others, and perhaps you can assemble a complete watch.

Trouble is, they all tend to be missing the same parts, such as the balance bridge assembly and escapement 90% of the time.

I guess the answer, and help me here if I am wrong, is that not only did ball used hamilton and others but he fabricated parts not just plates to use with these manufactures movements. Such as pallet bridge assemblies ect.

No, Ball never manufactured any watch parts. Waltham and Hamilton made them according to his patented designs and specifications however.

Thomas, welcome to our group of time machine fanciers!

Your question . . .

"is that not only did ball used hamilton and others but he fabricated parts not just plates to use with these manufactures movements. Such as pallet bridge assemblies ect.(?)

. . . explains your quandry about Ball watches.

Ball never made any watches or parts thereof. the only things Ball did was;
1. Establish and certify a network of "Ball Watch Inspectors" who worked with many railroads to see to it the RR employees watches were keeping time.
2. Buy watch movements* with re-cut train plates to his pictorial specifications.
3. Engrave (sometimes), adjust, time and case (sometimes) watches that he had dials mounted to with his signature.
4. Write advertisements about the importance of Jeweling on good watches . . .

*Ball bought, timed, cased and sold under his own name, completely finished 18 and 16 size watch movements made for him by Aurora, Elgin, Hamilton, Hampden, New York Watch Co., E. Howard & Co., Illinois, Seth Thomas and American Waltham Watch Co.

American Waltham Watch Co. who had (probably lowest price and) the most consistently serviceable motor barrel powered movements was a large quantity supplier of Ball Watches.

Ok,here goes,I have a ball movement that I have for restoration.We have decided it's a hamilton. The problem is that the pallet bridge is not a 992 which as I understand ball used for all his 999's. If you look on ebay at the item 160935853056 you will see if you look at the pallet bridge is not the same as the 992.Yet it's a hamilton,but which model. That why the above observation in my earlier post.

Thomas,

Webb C. Ball had company’s manufacture watches to his specifications so the 16 size 999 was made by Hamilton and some parts such as wheels, staffs, springs and jewels might be interchangeable with a 992. It would make sense that Hamilton would use whatever parts they already had available to fit the guidelines that Mr. Ball needed. The 18 size Ball 999 I have needed a shipper lever spring and mainspring and those parts are the same ones used for a Hamilton 940. Likewise the 16 size 999 probably uses a Hamilton mainspring that was used for the 992 or similar grade.

Hamilton used 3 different pallets for the 992 and there is not just one pallet bridge for all 992 movements. The pallet bridge you need is for a Ball-Hamilton 16 size 999 made for Ball and will not be found on any 992 period.

The pallet bridge you seek was made by Hamilton specifically for the Ball-Hamilton 999 16 size to meet the specifications Mr. Ball required and is a unique pallet bridge for those movements.

RR

Thanks much,I thought that might be the case. But leave it to me to come up with the odd ball. It is curious though that ball required a different pallet bridge for a ball hamilton when hamilton used the round plallet configuration on all it's 992 in some veriation over the life of the 992. I would say that was a proven design. Why the change I wonder?

Lindell,
Thank you and all the others who have supplied me with the information to finally "put this dog to bed". I have felt like a dog chasing his tail. But it's finally done. Again thanks to all for your kindness in helping me with this matter.

Thomas, believe me, EVERY ONE of us has gotten their tail in in a tizzy while learning about these strange instruments of time. You will learn what and how to find you own special enjoyment of these things as you persevere in this sea of chaotic history along with the rest of us.