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Was this watch company the Webb C. Ball Company? "Click" to Login or Register 
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In the Locomotive Engineers Journal by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers dated 1921 they mention a watch that was donated to help fund the meeting, they state the watch is from the Brotherhood Watch & Jewelery Company of Cleveland. Was this also the Webb C. Ball Company or something completely different?

Below is the text from the journal.

Tom


The chairman then introduced Brother Patterson of Cleveland, Ohio, who Is now associated with the Brotherhood Jewelry Company of that city. Brother Patterson spoke on matters of a general nature in a very interesting manner.

It is a pleasure for me to also say here that the expense of holding this meeting was covered by the proceeds from a raffle of a fine standard railroad watch donated by the Brotherhood Watch and Jewelry Company of Cleveland. Ohio, and that there was $175.00 left over to be held In the treasury to help meet the expense of the next meeting.

The "Brotherhood Watch and Jewelry Company" which is wholly owned by Brotherhood men, is located at East Sixth street, Cleveland, Ohio. This company offers special inducements for the trade of Brotherhood men, and by its contribution to this Fifth Sunday Meeting shows it is also willing to contribute to promote the fraternal spirit among railroad men.
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Hi Tom,

Webb C. Ball Company was a full service retail jewelry store, not part of the Brotherhoods but through his related operation, the "The Ball Watch Company" he exclusively sold the Brotherhood watches. It is also important to recognize the last Brotherhood watch would have been sold years before the time-frame you referenced.

I would say the key to this "Brotherhood Watch and Jewelry Company" would be in the line... "is wholly owned by Brotherhood men" ...and of course we know the Webb C. Ball Company, the retail jewelers and The Ball Watch Company, watch manufacturers were owned wholly by the Ball family and their associates.

Very interesting information, thanks for sharing it.

Lindell

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Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
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Hi Lindell

I thought the dates & names were kind of out of the run of things but then I thought I would ask, I wondered about the address mentioned "East Sixth Street Cleveland", I didn't know if that was were Ball was located or not.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Until 1911 Ball was on Seneca Street (now W 3rd Street) at the corner of Superior Ave, then on Euclid Avenue. Later, again, there was a Ball office in the Engineers Building at 1370 Ontario Street.

JBS
 
Posts: 202 | Location: East Melbourne, Victoria, Australia | Registered: December 31, 2005
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The Ball Watch Company office was located at 1310 in the Standard Building a 25 story structure. The Locomotive Engineers built in 1925. The Engineers Building was across Ontario Street, and was built in 1911 and had 11 stories.

Larry
 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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Tom et al,

This company can be found at the same Ohio database as the Railroad watch co.

ohio inc search

key words brotherhood watch
Perhaps Tom can get them to email the inc papers!

happy hunting,
 
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Bill

I emailed them, I will let you know if I get a reply.

Thanks
Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Adding a little to John's and Larry's posts above...

I agree with John about "The Ball Building" being at the corner of Superior at Seneca which is now called West Third Street, but it fronted on Superior and carried a Superior Road Address, see the image below this post. That address housed both the Webb C. Ball Jewelers on the first floor and The Ball Watch Company as well as other enterprises on the floors above. Then in 1911 the jewelry store moved to 1114 Euclid Avenue and the offices of The Ball Watch Company went to the Engineers Building at 1370 Ontario Street as John stated. Later, as Larry pointed out The Ball Watch Company offices were moved to the Standard Building, one of the many changes that took place after Webb C. Ball's 1922 passing. The jewelry store remained a Euclid Avenue landmark until it closed in the 1960s after which a bank took over that location.


Circa 1911 image "The Ball Building" at Superior and Seneca...


 
Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
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What a difference nearly a century makes!


Here is that same corner of Superior and West Third today...


 
Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
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Next is Larry Buchan's 1991 visit to Superior Federal which occupied the former jewelry store facility...

CLICK FOR Larry Buchan's "VISIT TO CLEVELAND LANDMARKS IN AUGUST 1991"


And now, here is that Euclid Avenue Building present day...


 
Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
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Here is a photo of a commemorative ashtray from The Brotherhood Watch & Jewelry Co. it is inscribed:

J.?. McAndrews
Compliments of The Brotherhood Watch & Jewelry Co. Cleveland, Ohio, June 2nd, 1924.
Jos. Hickman Wm. B. Prenter

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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I could not decipher the initials of McAndrews who the tray was presented to.

I have enlarged it here, and hopefully someone can figure the correct initials

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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Here is some Biographical Information on William B. Prenter he became President of the B. of LE in 1925 and passed away December 1927.

From the convention issue of the Locomotive Engineers Journal June, 1924

First Vice President William B. Prenter was born in Philadelphia in 1855, educated in Belfast, Ireland, and transplanted to Toronto, Canada, where he began firing for the Grand Trunk Railway at the age of 19, "Bill" Prenter is known and loved by hundreds of thousands of railwaymen throughout the United States and Canada. He became identified with the B. of L.E. upon his promotion to the right-hand side of the cab in 1878, and was selected Chairman of the B. of LE Convention in Ottawa in 1896 when he was elected as General Secretary Treasurer of the Locomotive Engineers Mutual Life and Accident Insurance Association because of his.
successful experience in organizing the Canadian Railway Accident Insurance Company two years previously. The 1904 Convention, elevated Brother Prenter to the position of First Grand Engineer of the Brotherhood, the title of the office being changed to General Secretary Treasurer by the 1921 Convention, and to First Vice President by the Forth Triennial Convention now in session. Brother Prenter holds down as many big jobs as any man in the country. In addition to his new title of First Vice President and Treasurer of the B. of L.E. and of the Pension and Insurance Associations, he is also Vice President and Cashier of the B. of LE Cooperatives. National Bank of Cleveland; President of the Nottingham Savings and Banking Company of Nottingham, Ohio; Vice President of the B. of L.E. Trust Company of New York City; Vice president of the B. of L.E. National Bank of Boston, Massachusetts; Director and member on the Executive Committee of the Empire Truss Company of New York City; Director of the Peoples Cooperative State Bank of Hammond, Indiana; Secretary Treasurer of the Brotherhood Holding Company and of the Brotherhood Investment Company; and Trustee representing the interests held by the Brotherhood in the Transportation Brotherhood's National Bank at Minneapolis, Minnesota, and the Federated Bank and Trust Company of Birmingham, Alabama.

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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A little on William Prenter from the 1922 Locomotive Engineers Journal

Presents Badges

Five grand old men of railroading in Eastern Canada, men who have witnessed the growth of Canada's railroad system from one or two restricted lines in the seventies, to its present extensive proportions, were honored at the Orange Hall, Gloucester street, on August 15th, when the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Div. 168, tendered them a banquet and "At Home,'' and presented each with honorary membership badges of the order. The five honored were Brothers W. Borbridge, A. J. Barr, W. King, David Kelly and W. H. Graham.

The occasion was graced by the attendance of Bro. Wm. B. Prenter, general secretary and treasurer of the B. of L. E., with headquarters at Cleveland, who for ten years previous to his going to the States twenty-six years ago, was locomotive foreman here and under whom each of the five brothers worked. Bro. Prenter explained that he had made the trip to see his old friends honored, and that he had never enjoyed a function more in his life. With Bro. Prenter in Ottawa, are his wife, his daughter, Mrs. E. F. Hadman, and her children, and they had an enjoyable day yesterday renewing acquaintances.
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Here is a map from 1927, made by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers showing their buildings and offices in downtown Cleveland in Red. I have added Blue dots to show where Ball's stores were located, and a Green dot to show the headquarters of the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen. You can also see East 6th Street that runs from City Hall and East of the Public Auditorium.

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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And finally, the most interesting of my finds is a Hamilton Watch Company Time book from 1925-27 from The Brotherhood Watch & Jewelry Co. MAIN STORE 1940 E.Sixth St. Cleveland, Ohio BRANCH STORES Pittsburgh, Pa., Brewster, Ohio, South Pekin, Ill., Savanna, Ill., Chicago Ill., and Youngstown, Ohio

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
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This is the incorporation papers from Ohio from Railroad Brotherhood Supply Co.

This is the 1st page of two, it is dated the 26th day of April 1917. The names make out as Joseph Hickman, J.H. Owen, Raymond Tinker, A.N. Dietz & C.E. Richards.

Tom

page01AI
 
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This is page two of the incorporation, it is signed by the people listed on page one & they listed $15,000 in capital stock of 150 shares.

page02AI
 
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This is the 1st amendment they files on the 26th of June 1917 page 1

page01AM01
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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This is page 2 of the 1st amendment, signed by the same person as the 1st doc.

page02AM01
 
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This is the 2nd amendment filed Feb 24, 1921 page 1

page01AM02
 
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This is page 2 of the 2nd amendment they increased their capital stock. It lists F.W. Warner as President & Joseph Hickman as secretary.

page02AM02
 
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Page 1 of amendment 3 dated April 14, 1921

page01AM03
 
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This is page 2 of the 3rd amendment, it is hard to read but the top lines state that they are changing the name of the company from The Railroad Brotherhood Supply Company to the Brotherhood Watch & Jewelery Company. This is also signed by Warner & Hickman

page02AM03
 
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Page 1 of amendment 4 dated 14 June 1922

page01AM04
 
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Page 2 of amendment 4, in this they increased the stock from $50,000 to $200,000. Also signed by Warner & Hickman

page02AM04
 
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And finally the last document Ohio has on file for the Brotherhood Watch & Jewelery Company, page 1 of amendment 5 dated June 14, 1922

page01AM05
 
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page 2

I don't know if you all are interested in these but thought I would share them.

Tom

page02AM05
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Tom,Larry and Lindell,

Outstanding! You have made this a great thread!

Tom, if you haven't worn out your welcome yet, you might get your buddies back in the Ohio govt to check out doc 32910 the Ball co which was the successor to all three Norris Alister co's and #86683 The American Exchange Bank in which Ball was supposed to be an investor.

happy hunting,
 
Posts: 881 | Location: Arroyo Grande, California USA | Registered: February 22, 2004
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Bill

I found the listing for the bank, it gave # V230_0019.

For the other one you have for ball what did you find it under, I think it should also have a number starting with the letter V, at least all the others I have asked for did.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Now to try to find info on the owners.

First;
Joseph Hickman
born June 19, 1888 in West Virginia
died March 30, 1958 Cleveland
married to Theresa
1920 Cleveland census lists him as proprietor Jewelery Store
He served about 6 months in the Military from July 2, 1918 to Jan 18, 1919 157 Depot Brigade to 24 July 1918; 419 Telegraph Battalion Summary Court to 2 Aug 1918; Co C 324 Field Signal Battalion to Discharge Private Honorable discharge 18 Jan 1919.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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Have not had any luck with Owen or Tinker.

Did find a A.N. Dietz that was a freight & ticket agent 1889-90 for the Pittsburgh & Western Rail Road in Warren Ohio.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
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registry search

Tom,

Try this link and enter 32910

Bill
 
Posts: 881 | Location: Arroyo Grande, California USA | Registered: February 22, 2004
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