Why are some pocket watches marked "Electric Railway Special", rather than just Railroad Special.

I don't see why the need for different marking for a watch used on an electrified line, as the accuracy requirements would seem to be similar.


dan

I believe the Electric Railway Specials were made to attract the trolley and interurban operators business, as they DIDN'T have to adhere to the railroad standards set for use and operation on American/Canadian railroads. The watches were 17j, and usually adjusted to 3 or 4 positions.

I own a Hamilton 974 with the Electric Special marking on the dial. It's a 17j, 3 position adjustment, and pendent set. Railroad standards called for at least 21j, 5 position, and lever set only, so the 974 of mine would never meet railroad standards....but it would serve perfectly for the looser standards of the operation of a trolley car/interurban business.

Regards! Mark

I too would like some specific information on these watches. My information is based upon the scant description in Shugarts and my own supposition.

First, I am supposing that it was the 974 Special that was usually associated with the Electric RR Spl. The 974s has a steel escape wheel, double-roller and was usually lever set. The 974 had a brass escape wheel, single roller and was usually pendant set (although a smaller number of lever-set were produced). I always just assumed that the 974s, with its similarity to RR standards, (albeit only 17 jewels) was intended for trolly use.

Shugart lists a 974s AND an Electric RR Special. I don't know the dfference so, again, I assumed that the Electric RR Special, would have the dial AND be lever set.

I have two 974s's and have put the Electric RR Special dial on the lever-set model, in the hope that I have met all the requirements.

If anyone has any documentation as to exactly what was required for Trolly use.... I'd love to know.

974 Special movement:

Mine has just 'Hamilton Electric Special' on it's double sunk dial, and it's a single roller 974, serial number 2455007, made in 1927.

There was this discussion on the green board a while back that might help...

Hamilton Electric Railway Special discussion

As you can see by Kent's list, they were both pendent AND lever set, and scattered all through the serial numbers.

Regards! Mark

To it's credit, my old 974 has kept time equal to my 992B and Elgin 571, and those two railroad watches have been overhauled and timed in by the best, Chris Abell my 992B, and Ed Uberall my 571....so these old watches can do the job when required. Hamilton sure made some good stuff back in the day.

Regards! Mark

Earlier this year I asked Don why Hamilton brought out the 974 special when they had the 978. Here's his reply:

quote:

In early 1924 Hamilton discontinued their 978, which was a 17 jewel watch adjusted to three positions and approved for use on interurban and electric railroads. This means trolleys. In June 1929 they reconsidered this move and upgraded the 974 to a 974 special. They replaced the brass escape wheel with steel and adjusted the watch to three positions (dial up, dial down and pendant up). It was sold only in “traffic special cases”.

In Hamilton catalogs, the 978 was described as a higher quality (and costlier) watch than the 974. Later, the 974 Traffic Special was advertised in similar terms. Both were recommended for those who needed an accurate watch but weren't subject to time service requirements.

Mark, your 974 special almost certainly has a double roller. The 974 & 978 were upgraded from single to double roller at the same time, and both my 1912 & 1919 978s, SNs 1013786 & 1341981, are marked "Double Roller" on the movement. Shugart has one too many zeros when he lists the change-over serial nos. for these models.

Norman

Mark, my non-special 1904 974 almost keeps railroad time. it's usually within 30 sec./week, and is nearly as good as my Bunn Special. Out of all my watches, it's my third best timekeeper. Good stuff indeed!

Norman

When you look at the difference between a 974 and a 992, there should not be that much difference in accuracy. The double-roller and steel escape wheel are safety features...and will not improve accuracy per se. Capping the pallet and escape wheel should improve positional accuracy somewhat but their effect will not be felt as much as capping the balance.

The 17J Hamiltons were, in my opinion, superb. The fact is that improving the accuracy of those watches, even a little, takes quite a bit of effort.

The Interurban Railroads were a bit more than mere trolly-cars. My only knowledge is reading about them in period novels. They were, in fact, inter-city mini-railroads that ran between cities and connected-up with each other. In one novel, the character is an immigrant and has no knowledge of the big, transcontinental RR's. He decides to leave NYC for "the country" and simply takes the trolly to the end of the line and then takes the next trolly onward. I think he ends up in New Hampshire or Vermont. Slow and with a lot of stops but the were a fairly major network for short-haul passengers.

Interurban railways were different than street cars, but their cars usually used trolley poles like the street cars, and were also called trolleys by those who used them.

Interurban railways could be built and operated more cheaply than steam railroads because the lighter equipment didn't need track as heavily built as the steam RRs. Grades could be steeper, and curves sharper, so it was possible to connect towns & villages that weren't on the steam railroads. They carried freight as well as passengers, but didn't compete for long distance traffic. Interestingly, a lot of older amusement parks were built by electric railways to encourage ridership. They were eventually superceded by busses and trucks.

Norman

Double roller, eh? Thanks, Norman! That's good to know. I assumed it was single as I thought Hamilton marked the plates of all their double roller watches. Mine is not marked as such.

Thanks again!

Regards! Mark

My Hamilton database shows your SN as a regular 974, not a "special."

Both of my 974s's say "974 Special" on the train-bridge and "Double Roller" on the barrel-bridge.

That is correct, and that's what I've said above as well. Mine is a regular old 974. It just SAYS Electric Special on the dial.

Regards! Mark

I have a 16s Illinois Stewart Special, 19j, double roller adjusted to 3 positions. It is pendant wind and lever set with ser# 4,307,809, the dial is marked "Illinois Electric Railway Standard". Were these possibly made to compete with the Hamilton Electric Railway watches?.

Ray, I also have a 16s Illinois Stewart Special, 19j, adjusted 3 positions, with "Illinois Electric Railway Standard" on the dial. My serial number is 4,158,118. Since these watches were sold by Sproehnle & Co., in Chicago, maybe they were trying to cater to the Chicago trolley car employees. When I first bought mine I thought for sure the dial had been replaced, but after hearing of yours and one other, I am now convinced my dial is correct. Interesting stuff!

This Pendant setting s/n 2418435 c.a. 1926 has "Electric Interurban Special" dial that is posssibly original for that period. No "3 Pos." marking though.