Just pick up this watch at the local gold scrap dealer, looks like a nice case with lots of gold. Does this case mark have any significance? on the cuvette it is marked "Charles Van Der Woerds- Patent Compensating Balance" also marked 18k AWCO= American Watch Case Co?

Here is the 18k mark

Show us a picture of the movement. Hopefully it still has the original balance. The last movement I see sold for $5,000. Not including this great looking case that is also marked.

GREAT FIND AND THANKS FOR SAVING THIS OUTSTANDING WATCH AND CASE. I don't know $10,000--$20,0000 if it has the original balance.

Sean-

Very nice case. I did a little looking around on what this case would have been for. Since the cuvette has no winding holes, I would say the case is for a stem wind movement or a transitional movement. From what I can tell, it would have been possible for a very high grade 1868 or 1872 model waltham. Either way, a very rare and higly sought after case for anyone looking for a case for a very high grade waltham. The woerd's pendant inscription just adds that much more to it as the cases I have seen when searching do not have that inscription on them.

Page 110 of the 2010 complete price guide shows what you need to look at bottom right side. Also page 122. 5 star watch that by the book does not even mention there where original signed cases. I was at an auction and did not see that a 16sz waltham had an Woerds balance in the watch. So I missed out. John another auction runners sold it on ebay 5 years ago for $5,000 not run. Not in a case marked Same. And defiantly not 18kt.

Jarod I'm not sure if I see any holes in the Cuvette. Even if you only have the case. Definitely pay dirt.

Eugene- Thats what I was getting at was that there are not any holes in the cuvette, so likely not for a keywind watch. I will agree it is a paydirt hit, someone out there will want this case for a very high grade waltham. Sean, you will just need to find out what exact grade of waltham it fits.

I mistaken NOW for NO Winding holes.

The book states the 1872 was the model that had the Woerds Patented Balance. The 1872 is not a back wind or set.

Here is the movement, no jewel count, so the gold scrap guy threw it in for no charge. Not running because of broke main spring....

Here is another view showing the "Sparkle of the plates" they look really good.

Looks like we should call up the Waltham experts

I think this Mod 1872 with it being marked on the plate and under the balance should or could have the "sawtooth balance". I am not seeing a sawtooth balance though. That balance would make a big $$$$ difference in the watch. I believe it's the difference between a 3 star watch and a 5 star watch. Might we see the dial and hands??

What a find

regards,
bb

I discussed this with Lin a few minutes ago, and we both agree that having the 18K solid gold case with signed Cuvette as well as the movement is like a;

"Bottom of the ninth, bases loaded home run that wins the World Series."

This watch lives in a whole different world. Throw the price guide out and lets research it more.

How about a dial shot?!

As for the sawtooth balance, American Watch of Waltham had so much trouble with that balance that they substituted for many in the finishing of the watches. The Serial number on the Balance will mean the most. REGARDLESS, this is a VERY VALUABLE my estimate $16-20,000 piece.

More to come. What a BLAST!!

IHC Member Desmond Lundy has 999932 with sawtooth balance, see below...

I agree, although the balance is partly in motion in the photos, it does not look like it has the patent sawtooth balance. I have read that many of them were returned to the factory to have the balance replaced with normal bimetallic balances due to poor performance of the sawtooth balance. It is almost certain that this watch originally had the very rare balance.
Maybe you could let us see a photo of the dial as well, and a photo of the balance when it isn't moving.
Mike

Ehrhardt's copy of Waltham Hand written records show a record of this coming from a 100 Piece run of serial numbers 999901-1,000,000 16s A.W.Co. 3/4 plate with 5 pairs of pivots, and the notation "S.W. Nic.Htg Ex Adj."
All delivered somewhere between December 1879 and June 1882.

Either way with the original balance or not it is a miraculous find and save of a watch that would of been destine for the bone yard.

Here is a pic of the Balance note the number is 999 918

here is the balance bridge underside

Here is the Balance bridge top side showing "Gold Dome" jewle setting

Here is the all gold gear train, looks like this movement is actually 21 jewels.

It looks like the escapement wheel is capped. I'm guessing that dial side is fully jewelled also.

Here's were things get really interesting, the case came in at 76+ grams. I make a deal to buy the watch case for gold weight + 5% so I get the watch for $2625.00 ( The guy throws in the movement as they apparently bought the watch for Less than $1000.00 and it doesn't say 23 jewels as He Really Knows the good stuff like Bunn Specials!!)

I get it home on Sat. afternoon and start to figure out this has a goofy dial, maybe just a "put together", then I look at the cuvette. I really didn't pay attention to what it said maybe Waltham or something while I negotiated the deal. Of course the Woerd's Patent Balance strikes a chord....The case is obviously a modified hunter converted to "Open Face" But the dial is REALLY well done fitting exactly to the movement and case. As can be seen in the pic's this is really something special.

This watch is Factory Special built to specification for a VIP customer or more likely an important Waltham Employee.

Here is the front view

Here is the Dial

Here is the back of dial, all feet are correct and "specific" for an 1872 HUNTER Movement.

Back of the Case

here is the mainspring I used for repair.

That has to be all factory Original. The signed cuvette case says it all. You have a winner.

Here is the movement "cased up", a totally perfect fit as this movement has several unique dimensions that make it nearly impossible to correctly case using anything other than an original Waltham Model 1872 case.

WOW! The stuff of dreams. The scrapper is thrilled, you're thrilled and we get to see it. WOW!

I demand this watch to talk and give us the facto's

Very interesting piece for sure....

Will this be marketed or will it become part of your collection

regards,
bb

I am not really a Waltham collector. I am sure I could be motivated to sell if the "Correct" offer was made. Not really about the money, but rather a deal that involves another scarce time piece + cash.

Sean, I got a call from a well known Pocket Watch collector (who shall remain anonymous) who advised there is thought to be about 40 of these left of the actual 100 that were finished from the block assignment of 100 S/N's. (999,900-1,000,000)
Of those, I was told there are only 5 known original serrated balances with SOME of the rest fitted with "normal" balance wheels.

To that end, I was advised the expected value of this is less than half of my first "guesstimate".

Given the rarity of these and the uniqueness of this one example, I would want to know a whole lot more about the other watches as far as all original signed 18K OF case, "3 O'clock Dial", a correctly factory numbered and re-fitted Balance wheel.

I expect the actual value can only be established by Auction, or a Waltham specialist who is fully experienced with recent sales history of these treasures.

I remain with Lindell on the observation that this is in a world of it's own, much the same as a "Bottom of the ninth, bases loaded home run that wins the World Series."

I can see the serrations on the balance wheel of Desmond's watch.

Can someone explain Woerd's Patent, and how a balance wheel with a sawtooth edge improved things?