Was "Santa-Fe" a real Watch Company?

This advertisement from Collier's, 1920, says order this watch from the "Santa Fe Watch Co." located in Kansas. Was this a real watch co. like Ball?

Very interesting! Apparently Santa Fe like Burlington offered to engrave the owner's signature or other decoration on the case back. Was there any connection between the two companies?

Frank,
Keep those ads coming here on the 185 site. Many thanks for sharing.

Cool ad Frank, thanks for sharing.

The "mile a minute" clip alluded to in the ad was fast indeed for the steam locomotives in use in 1920 and would have been a typical top speed of a passenger train highballing down a main line. In that year the average speed (including stops) for passenger trains in the U.S. was about 22 MPH and the average for freight trains was a little over 10 MPH.

Tony,

I could post old ads all day, unfortunately not at a mile a minute! I'll try to keep them coming though.

I wonder, what really makes the dividing line between a big "Private Label" and a "Company", like comparing Santa Fe and Burlington to Ball.

Frank "407" Kusumoto

To me, the main difference between Ball and other private labels is that Ball adjusted the movements to their own standards after they were received from the true manufacturer. Other than that, they all ordered custom finished movements from one or more manufacturers, often with a custom plate pattern.

It seems that Ball, Burlington, and Santa Fe were the big three private lable watch companies.

Did not the late Bill Meggers have some questions as to the position adjustments to the Santa Fe Specials? Were they 3 position watches? If so, how are they being used in railroad service?

In response to Jerry Freedman's question, I know of only two Grades of Illinois watches sold under the Private Label "Santa Fe Watch Co." that qualified as RRG:

(A) 16S-21J Model 9 Grade "A. Lincoln" -- including two production runs totaling 200 watches maximum:
3,457,001 - 3,457,150
3,457,201 - 3,457,250

(B) 16S-21J Model 9 Grade "561" -- including one production run of as many as 1,000 watches:

5,356,001 - 5,357,000

All other watches made with the Santa Fe marking were adjusted 3 positions, except for the smaller ladies watches in "0" size (Grade 37) and "6/0" size (Grade 903)

Russ

It is interesting that the ad does not say railroad approved or have any other language regarding railroad standards. It just says this particular engineer carries one.

It was true then, as today, that you have to read the words that are missing from an ad to know what it is actually saying.

Railroad watch had no meaning except that it was the kind of watch that railroaders used. It was not that different from the usage today on eBay.

I do have photos of other "A. Lincoln" Grade movements with P.L. markings:
"RAILROAD GRADE -- S. AALTO"
"TASCO"
"D & R.G. SPECIAL"
"COMMODORE PERRY -- O. COHEN"

Interestingly, however, I looked at Meggers book (p. 279, #6) and discovered that Bill marked this as a "RRG" Model 8 Grade "606" T3PI. However, his listings on p. 254 have a reference to the photo on p. 279, but don't designate the watch as RRG.

Looking at the serial number listings Bill has on p. 407 for the run that included the watch pictured on p. 279, he shows it as a run of pendant-set Model 6 movements from 3,916,601 - 3,917,000. I would assume that the RRG designation with the photo is probably a typo, since there are no other Grade 606 movements listed as RRG. Likewise, the Model 8 designation may be incorrect, since I can find no Grade 606 production runs which are lever set.

Russ

For the Private Label versions I listed in my previous message, here are their patterns:

"RAILROAD GRADE -- S. AALTO" = 2-tone checkerboard

"TASCO" = same as 17J Bunn -- Sunburst (3rd) pattern, but with a gold border

"D & R.G. SPECIAL" = nickel only with center similar to fish-scale Bunn, and outer ring plain nickel -- the dividing line is a circle that passes thrugh the center of the winding wheel.

"COMMODORE PERRY -- O. COHEN" = damaskeening pattern identical to A. Lincoln. -- bright-striped pattern, nickel only, the last one is also marked "ERIE, PA."

Russ

Here is a photo of the "Perry" movement.

And here's the "D & RG Speical" photo.