I have never had any key winds and lately I picked up a couple. The first one is easy to set the hands, it has a square arbor to wind it up and another square arbor to set the time, no rocket science involved.

I picked up a nice hunter case Elgin in a very strange case, it even has a hinge on the bezel ring, it only has has one square arbor (to wind) but I do not see a lever any where, and I am not sure I should be pulling to hard on the crown since I don't want to mess something up.

So to say I am a bit baffled is an understatement. I will have to take some pictures of the case to see if anyone can figure out who the maker is.

Claude
I've had some that set in front at the Hands.
The Key fits there.

Claude majority of american keywinds you set by opening the bezel and putting key on post hands are on and simply setting it that way, thus the reason most have a hinged bezel. If it is american and no square arbor it may be a transition watch where it has the winding arbor but you set it by the stem like a regular watch most of the time you can tell because they are usually lever set. ANother idea is the square arbor may be missing or broken. Pictures will help.

Now that you mention it, sure enough there is a square tip to the put the key on to move the hands. That might explain why the crown is worn slightly in two spots since it was never used and stayed in the same position.

Still has the original dust band but does have some funk on it so it will need a cleaning

I will post some pictures of the case later since I am cleaning it at the moment. It has a symbol and 18 on the case and you can see where on the inside of the front lid that it has suffered from gold checking scrapes.

I don't see any brass except on the pendant, even the crown does not show any signs of brass.

It runs but I think either the mainspring and headed south or it is unhooked.

I bought an 18s Elgin key wind last year. It dates from 1893 and also sets from the front. I couldn't set it at first with the repro key the seller included but I noticed that the square opening in the key was recessed. I ground down the end of the key flush with the opening and then it worked fine. The watch only has 7 jewels but is in such near pristine shape that it keeps time within 10 seconds a week with the regulator at dead center. It's in a Silveroid case though, no gold or silver content. If you notice, it has no crown which I believe was the norm with the full key wind and key set watches. There is no need for a crown.

The serial number on your movement dates it to 1871 and it says it could have from 11 to 13 jewels. It's a nice find but may not be in it's original case. It also says that it's a Hunter case movement.

http://elgintime.dyndns-home.c...SnumLookup?SN=165289

Movement

Elgin did not sell Factory Cased watches. You chose what case you wanted from your local jeweler. Elgin keywind watches fit in both Hunter and open face cases. There is a locator pin on the movement that aligned with a hole in the case.so there was only one case screw needed.Open faced cases needed no pusher crown which you find on Hunted Cases. The crown on Hunter cases do not turn.Your Open face case is probably original to the movement

That isnt a crown on the gold case above. Its a hidden key for the watch that comes out. You sometimes see them on silver/silveroid cases also.

I don't know about it being a hidden key [possible], but it is a "pusher" to spring open the front lid of a spring loaded hunting case to view the time.

regards,
bb

Jim I wondered why the crown was knurled so I will see if I can work it out since it would be nice to re-insert it 180 degrees from the current position. I did not want to damage it by tugging on it but it does have a key that came with it so now that I know how to set the hands I can set them but it needs at least some work to the mainspring and since it is an 1871 vintage movement I am sure a COA is in order also.

Claude, your serial number shows in Ehrhardt's Elgin book as a Model 1, 13 Jewel Grade 57 movement. Oddly, yours looks more like it has been upgraded to a higher Jewel count because there are 4 Jewels on the top plate.

The 4 top plate Jewels are unnatural to a 13 Jewel movement which normally shows only 3 top Jewels that are "paired" to 3 more hidden on the dial plate side.

This variant is not surprising and can happen for many reasons, but it would be nice to discover if it is an 11 or 15 Jewel movement. In either case the condition of the movement and the original 4 hinged case easily earn this a "front row seat" in any collection.

The pictures of the case and the description of the case I think scared some people away. The case cleaned up beautifully, very little abuse other than the knuckleheads who did the scrapes to the inner portion of the front lid, I may take it in and see if I can get a design put on it to hide part of the knucklehead's legacy. It actually tries to run but if I wind it to any extent you can hear the mainspring slipping, so it is either unhooked or broke.

The lowest Elgin I have is one in the 1890's and this KW is at least two decades older (1871) so it is the "grand-daddy" in my collection in terms of age. It does not look like it has seen much abuse over the years and appears to be a very good quality gold case, I am not sure if it is solid/filled/plate but whatever it is it will be up there in my collection with the 350 and others after I get repairs done to it.

Old KW's are hard to resist once the bug has bitten. I acquired two Elgin Model 1's last year in 15j, one dated 1869 and the other 1871, and have enjoyed the heck out of them.

Something calming about fiddling around with watches this old in winding and setting in the mornings, and oddly enough you don't care if they ARE running fast or slow after 24 hours. Just existing and continuing to keep proper and usuable time is amazing enough!

Something comforting about holding that big old chunk of a watch in your hand too!

Just think....U. S. Grant was president when your watch was made...General Custer still had 5 more years to live before Little Big Horn when your watch was made.....the Earps and the OK Corral took place 10 years AFTER your watch was made.....more than likely Civil War veterans with fresh memories of that terrible war built/finished your watch......amazing!

THESE are the thoughts that rattle through MY head everytime I pull one of my old KW's out of my pocket! That connection!

You have a beauty there, Claude. Be sure to carry it on a nice vest chain once you have it in carry condition! They're loud tickers too!

Regards! Mark

I didn't think about the Crown being there to open the front cover of a Hunter case which the watch in question obviously has. There still would be no reason other than decorative for it to be knurled. So it could very well be the case the watch was originally sold in.

They are massive heavy watches but mine does not tick any more loudly than my other PW's.

I always wondered why mine only had the one case screw. I have never taken it out of the case so didn't know it had a pin which I can clearly see in the picture of Claude's movement.

As to jeweling, didn't some watches only have jewels in the top plate and not the bottom? That would make them seem to be more highly jeweled than they actually are. A watch that looks like it has 15 jewels could actually only have 13. I have read that that was done fairly frequently in the early days.

quote:

They are massive heavy watches but mine does not tick any more loudly than my other PW's.

Boy, MINE does! You can hear it clear across the room where none of my other large 18s watches make a sound.

Regards! Mark

You hit the nail on the head

these pushers were plain at first, but after the stem wound watches started appearing and taking over the market,

most of the hunting key wind-key set casemakers, started adding "knurls" to the pushers to give them a more modern look like the stem wound models

regards,
bb

I think the knurls are for the "looks" if it comes out I am not sure how it is done. The wind key that came with it is marked 1874 and appears from the marking to be a #4 key. This key has a swivel on the loop which the other cheaper keys that I have don't. I was worried I paid too much for the watch (285 with shipping) but after cleaning up the case I think that ended up being ok. The case is much better than I expected and it will probably need a mainspring and a COA but as Dave said when done it will be a nice addition.

Just as a suggestion, Claude....try a #5 key. I've found that's the size that fits best on both my Elgin model 1's.

Regards! Mark

thanks Mark, I tried the #5 on my newer key set and it worked fine, so I will keep the original key stored away.