Bought some ladies size pocket watches and guess whats growing in the back of one.

Are all the pansy marks solid gold, and what karat?

This one's out right now, but it had a pansy with TRADE on the left and MARK on the right. What do I have ?

Thanks,

Charlie

Hi Charles,
Yes, it's most likely a Pansy, however, there are other flowered trade mark cases and watches out there.
Yours is most likely a Pansy though, because of the word Trade with it. Some of the Lissauer solid gold cases also have the words "Trade Mark" on them.
So far, all of the Cases with the Pansy trade mark have been Solid Gold, and I believe they are 14k, according to their ads they are 14k.
Can you tell me if it also has L&Co on the case too? It's part of the Pansy trademark, however it may not be there with the Pansy, I think I have one without the L&Co. (I will check this)
All of the Pansy's I have, and the 2 others I have seen on the net, are size 0s, and usually an Elgin, however, I have one Waltham in a Pansy Case.
My watches mostly have the Pansy on the case and the movement of the watch, with some on the dial also, so I would like to know if yours has it on both, or dial, or just the case OK?

I just purchased Mr. Lissauer's picture and some more information about him, and I will post it later tonight.
Thank you SO much for sharing your find with us, and if you are interested in selling it, let me know, I AM INTERESTED!
PS Post a picture when you can. I would love to see it.
PSS I forgot to ask, what Watch did you find in the case? Elgin? Waltham?.....
Bless,

Trademark & 14k

The watch is with my watch trading buddy. He & I bought a small collection together and he is in charge of the smaller gold watches.

I will get it this week and get you a pic or two.
Thanks so much for the info. It is not marked 14k, but looked like solid gold. Don't remember the L&Co marking.

Charlie

Shelia

Pics are attached. Not sure its a Pansies though. Appreciate your thoughts

Watch is running well and all lids operate as they should

dial

mvt - looks like 15 j Elgin

a daisy maybe ?

Hi Charles,
Sorry for the delay on this one, but I wanted to find one of the trademarks I was talking about in the other post.
Below is a watch from the Rose Watch Co. in 14k so you can see why it's so hard to determine if it's a Pansy. I believe that yours may NOT be a Pansy after all, but I still can't be sure.
However, since I have never seen a Lissauer (L&Co) Pansy without the L&Co Trademark, I don't think it is one. You will have to decide.

This one is a Lissauer Pansy Case Trademark.

Well, I'm not sure what it is.

Doesn't exactly look like a rose either. It did test to be 14k.

Does anyone recognize this trade mark?

Thanks for your help Shelia


Charlie

Charles,
Hi, I found this and wanted to let you know about the flower on this watch.

I did find the maker of the watch case, It's Henry Freund and you can see an example of it on the Pocket Watch board on page 3 of the National's post.

You can read about the connection there.

I'm know you may not have the watch any longer, but having the information is always a good thing.

Freund made some super nice cases. Mostly Solid Gold too!

Here it is.

I think I boiled that flower trademark down to:

Max Freund & Co.
8 Maiden Lane
New York

CA 1885

However it's a little more complicated than that. There are other connections to them, including H.F. & Bros., (Henry Freund & Bros), Ed Heuer, the founder of todays Tag Heuer, the Rose Watch Co. which is a name used by Henry Freund & Bros. for selling Ed Heuer Watches here in the US.
Took a while to find everything about it, but feel confident that it's correct.
I think that the change in the design of the trademark made it more confusing.

Of course, in the end, the M F & Co. marks make it pretty convincing that it's Max Freund & Co.

See page 59 of Ehrhards trademarks book, notice the 2 Freund posts there, and then add the Ed Heuer information, and then it all connects.

It must also be stated that they made outstanding watch cases, and most were High Dollar ones. All in all, they are wonderful cases.

Last, I'm still not ready to set this information in stone, but I know better than to state something as absolute, until I have all the connections on paper and proved. For me, it's the answer.

Max Freund & Co.

and the trademark, just like yours.