A friend is bringing over a 14K Illinois 16sz grade 850 that she was going to send to a scrap gold dealer. Can anyone tell me the rarity of a grade 850 Illinois? I can't seem to find it in the "book" so I don't have any idea what would be a fair offer in order to keep it out of the smelter. I have seen the watch a few years back and it is in it's original white gold case. The pic I included I found by Googling. Thanks, Harold

Hi Harold,

I cant find any record of it in the files I have, which is good
If he is going to melt it and toss the movement then he has a value placed on it of about 80% of the gold case wieght, so if you pay 100% melt value on the case he should be happy.
I have been trying to sell solid gold cased watches recently fully serviced etc some with refinished dials and cant even get melt value.

None of my Illinois references include this either. The serial number is a Grade 304 16s Size which was a private label grade. I agree with Chris. This is a very rare run called No. 850, and as there is no mention of it as marked, it is rare indded and worth keep "whole". Street vaue with gold case $5-600.00, which is over the gold content value of that case.

Hi Dave,

I think it is a good time to mention I weighed a standard S16 keystone 14K OF case for valuation, it worked out that the scrap value a few weeks ago came in at $500+ based on about 80% payout (the scrap guys claim higher payout but it often works out far less)
If you put a 17j Hamilton in a gold case you cant sell it cheap for $600, so you say put a good quality Elgin 23J just for example in you will not get $900 for it, very few people will buy gold cases at the moment, even though the case is guaranteed money "as good as gold" I am seeing many fine Swiss movements only on eBay recently
and this is why this fine scarce watch is heading to the melt,
Everyone wake up buy them or lose them!
I would be interested in buying this if you dont want it Harold $600 Email me if you decide not to buy.

I think the 850 is a private label. I own two 12 size Illinois that have a number as the name . I am not referring to grade numbers such as 127,121 or 415 that are found on 12 size movements.

While number names are scarce they probably should be viewed like most of the private labels that Illinois produced.

Bob

The saddest part of this whole thread is the argument as to value of the watch as governed by the case. I am not a "gold digger" and in fact think that those who are have a big surprise coming later in their life (this thought pattern so often brings to mind recollections of my many rich . . dead . . . friends )

Firstly, the movement in the case now is a "True bridge" type which was not too common among the 16 size Illinois pieces.

Second, if I had that case, I would seriously consider "occupying" it with one of my better Getty grades and have a "$1200.00 watch"!

Hi Dave,

Since having my fingers burnt with gold cased watches I have stopped buying them unless purely for my own use, any movement in a gold case loses all value, and you have a nasty scene haggling over gold guessing its weight minus springs etc.
I was offered a stunning HC doctors watch a few weeks ago in a solid box hinge 14k case, sadly I had to walk away, not worth the trouble...

Update, well I received the watch, haven't bought it yet....turns out it's a 12sz.and this is the actual watch picture, the following is what I posted on the other board; Yesterday I had the opportunity to save an Illinois from the scrap gold dealer. Not being very knowledgeable on 12sz Illinois watches, I thought I’d just take a quick look at the “book” to get an rough idea on it’s value, but there is no Grade 850 listed, The Ehrhardt/Meggers book does not show a Grade 850 either. The watch has a gold train, steel escape wheel, double roller and marked 19 jewels, but neither the pallet pivots or the escape wheel pivots have cap jewels, so it appears to be a 17j watch to me. Can any of the resident Illinois experts shed some light on the Grade 850 for me? Does Illinois have hidden jeweled barrels maybe to get the count to 19? Is this an unusual grade?
Thanks, Harold

Harold
your watch is a 19j Grade 406 private label No 850 with an estimated production of 92K.

While the No 850 is a scarce private label I think that only avid 12 size collectors such as my self would put any premium on it at all.

The is the same private label No 850 I also own.

bob