I have an Elgin 280 that I'm fond of. It is a 17j 3fb model with a gold center wheel, etc. It keeps pretty good time. But I happened to notice when I was looking it over yesterday that although the movement is marked "adjusted," it does not have a bimetalic split balance. What do you make of that?
Posts: 827 | Location: Bloomington, Illinois in the USA | Registered: September 29, 2008
Your fondness is certainly deserving of such a fine and reasonably rare watch!
The Elgin 280 was a purpose-made RR grade 17 Jewel movement produced in small quantities during 1902-03. Due to the Low Jewel count and the period of manufacture, Elgin only finished about 8,000 of these with some movements not signed at all, some signed B W Raymond, and some signed "280".
That said, these were all made at a time when the only balance springs were steel, thus requiring bi-metallic cut wheels for temperature compensation.
You must (hopefully) have one that was later "converted" by a watchmaker or Elgin to use the 30's vintage higher grade Elinvar Balance spring and uncut wheel.
A picture would help a lot. For reference, I add a movement picture below of one of my 280's (s/n10855040) that came from the last run of these fine timepieces and shows the original Blue steel Balance spring and cut bi-metallic wheel.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Steve, as you should already know, the dial makes that a very valuable watch. The balance wheel looks like an elinvar (white balance hair spring) "conversion, and that of course sets the watch apart into a completely new collectible catrgory.
I respectfully pass this on to Lindell to add some "learned" perspective to your watch.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
It really is very interesting! As David explained, your watch is unusual as it has bronze escape wheel rather than the polished steel we would expect to find along with a solid balance wheel and a natural colored presumably stainless-steel hairspring. Very interesting and worthwhile, obviously much later improvements than 1903 Production Information would impart.
Oh, if these watches could tell us where they have been and all they have been through!
And then your Ferguson Patent Dial with an unusual outer track. The odd-looking 1 through 10 repeated with each 10-minute increment is uncommon but entirely correct. In fact the inventor Lewis Buck Ferguson had that feature included in his 1908 Patent Drawings.
Here are some references you and others may find worth looking at...
I do have one more question, or two. Since the balance is solid, but the spring doesn't seem to be elinvar (or elginvar, or whatever Elgin called their alloy) was this meant to be an improvement over the cut balance somehow? I have heard that the early elinvar springs were sometimes colored blue or black because watchmakers distrusted the new alloys. Do you think this could be an elinvar spring? What do you think?
Posts: 827 | Location: Bloomington, Illinois in the USA | Registered: September 29, 2008
Steve, your pictures seem to show a spring that is "white" or neutral in color rather than blue. Actually early elinver springs were dyed blue because (it is said) the watchmakers did not think they were good steel unless they were blued. Later elinvar springs were left the neutral color.
If your watch is running at all well, when it gets cold, it will run faster because the uncut Balance wheel will not compensate for a balance spring that is not elinvar. Testing this is easy.
Since you are in "cold country", log a days time error at room temperature, reset the watch, and put the watch in an unheated, DRY, SAFE place and let it run for a day's wind at somewhere aroung 40 deg. f.
Report back how much time the watch gained or lost vis-a-vis running it at "room temperature" for the same amount of time. That can confirm the balance spring material.
Regardless, you have a rare and unusual watch worth careful documenting.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Here are the results of my experiment: Day 1: at room temprature the watch gained 30 seconds in 24 hours. Day 2: at an average of about 40 degrees in my car overnight the watch gained a minute in 24 hours.
Posts: 827 | Location: Bloomington, Illinois in the USA | Registered: September 29, 2008
Steve, its my guess that you have an elinvar balance spring, and the watch need to be cleaned and regulated. When the time comnes, I suggest you talk to Chris Abell about that, he regulates in the "classic" manner.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
It has been a long time since these posts, but the elgin 280 is my daily carry watch, has been for a few years.It is no# 10073031 that makes it #31 off the line.It was my first restoration and keeps time to +or- 10 seconds a day. When I get my light box set up I will post some pictures.Just wish I had a Ferguson dial for it!
Steve
Posts: 693 | Location: Washington in the USA | Registered: May 23, 2010
