I just purchased a Elgin 150 Grade, have yet to receive it, so pics are not yet available.
A couple of questions for our Elgin experts.
In the price guide it lists the grade 150 as a lever set, but in the Elgin database as a stem set, the one I have is a stem set, so the question did they come from the factory both ways ? Secondly it states 20 -21 jewels, was there a serial number cut off, where I as an untrained person could tell which this watch has ? I have gotten quite smitten with these large 18s heavily damaskeened full plate watches of any make, they are marvels in my eyes.
Any info would be appreciated, and are they rare at all, aside from the fact that 7600 supposedly were made, is there any approx. rule of determining the remaining numbers for an 1895 watch ?
Thanks,
Bill

Bill

Don't know if this helps but a Elgin parts catalog I have from 1904 lists the following for a grade 150;
Class 7, 18s, full plate, open face, Nickel, 5th model, pendant set, quick train 20-21 jewels.

Tom

Bill the story on the 20 jewel was that Elgin was not quite sure of themselves in jumping from a 17j full plate movement directly to a 21j full plate movement so the 149 and 150 grades both started as 20 jewel versions. The rule of thumb is that no 20j versions were seen after the first run so if you have runs 2> then it will be marked 21j right on the plates. Elgin also did a somewhat blunder in making the HC 149 version a lever set but the OF 150 version a pendent set missing the RR use of LS and the move away from PS for RR use., the majority of the grade 150's are pendent set. In the discussion that I linked you to there are several variants as follows 1-20j PS 2-21j PS 3-21j LS that has the same engraving/markings as the normal early run PS 4-21j later run LS that has engravings/markings much like the grade 181. I am not sure any 20j versions were lever sets, maybe someone will post one if they have one. The was a conversion grade 277 that was basically a 150 converted to LS, this was a very low production grade. Some are nameless, marked 150 or at rare times private labels. The early run lever sets are much more rare. The 149 or 150 are nice looking movements, the 181 is a looker also.

Hi all,
Just received my Elgin 150 today and thought I would ask if this is the correct dial and hands for this watch,I was also wondering if the crown had been changed. Someone has put it in a display case, so I know that is wrong, different screw marks! Also in another post I read that some watches from this same run were lever rather than pendant set, this is a pendant set watch, is this a likely scenario ? This is another large 18s Elgin for my collection. Thanks for any input.
Bill

dial

mvmt

Bill your dial and hands are more than likely incorrect for the 150. Most of the 149's anbd 150's used the Elgin in fancy script with the filigree on each side. Also Pendent set is the typical version, lever sets are much more rare so yours is a typical run and the runs did not go lever, pendent etc. Here is the dial and hands that you typically see on the 149/150.

Bill, the dial and hands on your watch have all the attributes and condition deserving of a later model RR watch. They are therefore "tradeable" for a more "appropriate" scripted "Elgin" dial and Medium Breguet Spade hands if you wish. If you want to set up a trade, I can rummage for a dial and I have two Elgin parts cabinets full of the correct hands. Just e-mail me at david@glopar.com
(btw, this is my core collection 150 dial pic and I am sure it is all Original!)

This is the movment, what incredible Damaskeening!
The s/n is 6424083 which I think makes it a "Kissin Cuzzin" to yours

collage

I think prior to 1900's it was not unusual to see an open face have a Roman numeral dial, and my 149 has a Arabic numeral dial but both have the fancy Elgin script with the filigrees on each side and both are double sunk with medium spade hands. I would agree with Dave if you can swap for the correct dial and hands I would, neither version 18 or 16 size of this mid type Elgin dials are easy to find. I think up to the 30's there were three types of lettering on the dials, fancy Elgin National Watch Co, like the ones that Dave and I posted and the later block Elgin like on your dial.

Bill's looks like this now . . .

Wow,
What a great looking watch, Dave, now I have to wait to get it back.
Thanks so much.
Bill

The dial looks very correct now, but on the back shot the regulator seems to be out of its slot on the micro adjust wheel. These are nice grade Elgins, I have both 21j version of the 149 and 150 both lever sets.

Yes, I noticed the regulator too. It moved slightly while I had the Balance cock off to regulate the watch and I did not notice the thing had moved over slightly, but that was not an issue at that time.

I have picked up a few full plates off ebay that had the micro adjust nut in one location and the regulator arm in another so after a couple you notice them like they were a red light flashing.
My 149 and 181 movements.

Good point. Thank you, I was looking at my Mumford Microset at the time.

I just got the watch back today from Dave Abbe. Once again I have to say what a pleasure it is to belong here, knowing nothing myself, but being able to get the information, and good will from all the far more knowledgable people here. I sent the watch to Dave to replace the hands and dial with the proper period correct ones which he so willingly stated he had and would trade me, with my shakey hands and failing eyesight he offered to change them for me, which I gladly accepted as I know without trying that i would have bent/broken the hands, and who knows what would have happened to the dial if left to me ? While he had it he stated that the watch was quite dirty, and needed a new mainspring, adn when asked if he could do it while he had it, there was no hesitation in him doing the work, through earthquake and all. I am so pleased at the job, I now have a period correct piece, and I am sure it will run for years to come.
Thanks again Dave, and all the members here for if nothing else, putting up with the less knowledgable people.
Thanks,
Bill
I am enclosing a couple of pics of the "new watch"

mvmt

Bill, I am glad that watch arrived there safely. Enjoy it. It is a rare opportunity indeed to have a dial you could use and be able to put it all together.

These versions of Elgin branded dials in the double sunk versions are a bit hard to find so that is why you see people take later block Elgin lettered dials and put them on the movements in the 149/150 time range that normally came with the fancy Elgin with the filigree on each side. Well worth the effort to get the grade back to as close to possible to original.

Hi all,
I just received my 2nd 150 today. Enclosed are some pics for your appraisal as to authenticity etc.This one is not marked grade or jewelling.
Would all of the 1st run ones been 20j instead of 21j, as this is 29 of the first run. Also as seen in the pics, the dial is different from the others, but this was made 1895 ? The fact that this is the 1st run, and should likely be a 20j movement, can someone say with any certainty how many were actually made in 20j, was it in fact the full 1st run of 1000 movements or a partial run ?
Enjoy and comments please !
Bill

mvmt

mvmt2

case