Ken Knight recently posted an early Elgin movement he acquired with some questions;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...86047761/m/437101703
After looking into it and replying to Kens post with a "first guess", Ken contacted me and we reached an agreement by which I could acquire this item.
Researching it further in the Elgin Site which only requires adding "v=7" after the serial number which in this case would look like; "180363 v=7" brought three interesting points;
1. Grade 69, 29154 total made key wind model 1, 15j U-A Marked BWR or None. gilded

2.notes on grade 69: Marked: BWR or None. first 18s grade
first HC style first key setting first 15 jewel

3.# SN322182 seen as "BWR 15j Adjusted REG_ELGIN" with an Abbott's conversion on ebay 1693600817
865001 marked "None" according to 1896 MC

So The factory data is these are ALL Key Wind Key Setting, BUT 1 of the Elgin detailed references is reported to have an Abbott's Stem wind conversion.

To Learn more about what this is all about, go to "Abbott's Stem Wind" which is the very first manufacturer listed in the watch guide (Pg 104 of 2010 issue).


As an adjusted 15J, (Abbott Conversion) Lever set, it could also be RR Grade at that time!

This is certainly an "Abbott Stem wind conversion!

Here is how it works, and note the setting gear that engages the cannon pinion is on an adjustable journal bearing plate to acommodate the different movements this was used on.

The stem winding part is actually recessed 4mm (almost 3/16) from the dial plate rim. As this was most likely in a Gold Case, I have to find an early Coin SIlver Stem winding Hunter case that might agree with it. The hard part is the setting lever is very near the winding pinion.

So Thank you Ken for your post that has started up another very exciting adventure.

Think of it! This is a 1871-3 production period Key Wind and Setting Elgin movement with an Abbott Stem wind conversion signed with the 1881 patent. The price guide says "Abbott sold over 50,000 wind attachments . . . fitted to" at least 10 different watch maker's movements, including Elgin. So . . . when was this one re-fitted? It had to be after 1881!

Now to the necessary cleaning and locating an appropriate case. Any Case suggestions anybody?

David-

Unfortunately the original case for the abbott watches are slim to none... My father currently has a couple elgins with the Abbott's patent that he is looking for cases for. One thing we've been told was at the time that people were buying the conversion system, it was rather pricy and a lot of the watches were also fitted with a solid gold cases. This would make sense on why a lot of them are missing the case! I know this doesn't help you find a case any easier, but keep your eye open, sometime you might spot one with a rusty or bad movement!

Jared

David, If the lever works like a regular lever set,why couldn't you just take an uncut case,and cut it in the right place for the lever on your movement. That sounds too simple,so I must be missing something somewhere.

I am presently looking for an early Coin Silver Hunter case to do just that. Unfortunately the lever position is much closer to the winding stem than "normal (all of the other early Hunter Cased watches were Lever set) lever" so it is likely I tyo have the "old" lever position cut on the crystal bezel as well. Still better than a bare movement.

David
On movements with the abbott stem wind conversion is the lever all ways below the three.I have a waltham keywind that is lever set keywind or stem wind the lever on it is by the five.And I have never seen another keywind or stem wind waltham's like you see Illinois that are called transitional.I have not taken the dial off yet to see if it is.But if the abbott's lever is all ways by the three then I know it's not a aboott conversion kit in my watch.

Nice watch Dave.Would this Abbot be anything to do with Abbot Sure time watches?Does anyone know who made the first true stemwinder, and when it came out?

The Abbot "Sure Time" watch was produced using the 1905 type Keystone/Howard movment. While it was a stem wind watch, it had no similarity to the Abbot Patent stem wind conversions.