I am trying to find if my 977 Hamilton is worth restoring, I have seen many but never w/ an ornate dial such as mine! The case is also unique and any info on it would also be greatly appreciated!

That is a fairly low production hamilton , only around 5,500 made, I would keep it. Good luck
ps if you need a watchmaker look on the IHC185™ Members Business Directory

Pic

Case

977 s# 69091

Illinois watch case co

Jamie,
That looks like a keeper!
Nice dial and Maybe a sterling and gold case.

Database says---

Manufacturer:Hamilton
Manufacturer Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Movement Serial Number:69091
Grade:977
Model: 2
To Finishing Dept: Aug 27, 1901
Run Quantity: 100
Total Production:5,730
Size: 16s
Jewels: 16j
Movement Configuration:Hunting
Movement Finish:Nickel
Movement Setting:Pendant
Plate:3/4 Plate
Adjusted:No
Adjusted to Temperature: Yes
Railroad Grade: No

Nice watch!!

Steve

My biggest question, is this the original case? I haven't been able to find pictures of other ornate Hamilton dials, does anyone have pics? From what I have found the movement was 1901 & the IWCC emblem dates to same time!? I am new to the game and very interested, if you have the time load me up w/ info! Thanks

Nice watch Jamie.It is a hunter movement and should
be in a hunter case.Not the open face case it is
presently in.

Roger

Hello Jamie

I reposted your photo showing where there are 2 other screw marks from another brand of watch. The good news is the case someone put your watch in. Is a GREAT one.

That was not uncommon, either the case was scraped when times got hard or the case wore out.

As Roger said, the case you presently have it in is not the original case. It is a hunting style movement with winding at 3 o'clock and came in a closed face hunting case that you pressed down on the crown and the spring loaded front lid sprang open to observe the time.

Hamilton made "fancy" dials for their watches. The movement was manufactured 10/10/1901 and shipped to Wheeler & Co. in New York the very next day, 10/11/1901. TOTAL PRODUCTION of the Model 977's were 5,730 as Steven said. While the Illinois open face case is from the same era as the movement, there is no data base to support exactly when the case was produced.

regards,
bb

The multi-color style Hamilton dial is rarely seen on the 16 and 18sz movements - Jamie. These types of dials are extremely fragile. Therefore, the examples that are "perfect" w/o hairlines or damage carry a nice premium.

Sure the movement was most likely housed in a hunter case, not an open face case (re-cased). However, yellow gold filled cases were only designed to last so long (hence the 5, 10, 20, or 25 year warranty stamped on inside back lid). Also, some individuals prefer an open face case on a hunter movement (they call it a "sidewinder" ) .

The case appears to be a two (2) tone model with maybe a sterling silver (92.5% pure silver - hard to read the marking on the inside back lid) bezel/back lid and Yellow Gold Filled main body to the case. Like the heavy petina and the contrast with the flowers on the back lid.

Thanks for posting - the watch is a keeper!

Would this be considered a Ladies or a Gentlemen s watch?

Thank you for all the responses!

I may be way off but I believe the 977 to be a "cheaper" model? It seems unusual to me that such a beautiful dial would be attached to a 977? The details in the dial are beyond the capabilities of the download, and is perfect as far as I can tell!

Hi Jamie this is a fairly early Hamilton and this movement would require a 4 footed dial which yours should be. Hamilton switched to the 3 footed dial around serial # 870,000 (est.) The movement is also the early detent model (I think I see a detent screw below the pendant area) which requires a special case into which the detent stem will fit. So although not likely an origianl case it is suitable. The hunter version cases for these detent movements can be very hard to secure. I believe the Waltham 88 cases have the same detent set up and will work on these early detent Hamilton's.

Lastly, I would probably not call this a "cheaper" Hamilton as Hamilton only made medium grade and up watches with very, very few exceptions. So I guess if compared to a 23J 946 or 950 it would be a lower grade watch, but still a very nice timepiece!!

Fact is it is not unusual to see low grade movements in very expensive gold cases. So the combo of your dial and movement would not be strange in my opinion. Buyers could have requested such a combo.

Rob
www.pocketwatchrepairs.net

Jamie, To answer your ? as to gender, this would be considered a Gentleman's watch.

My Grandfather had an Elgin Hunter with a fancy dial not unlike yours. He was a typical male with a pretty dial on his watch.

Rob Carter's comments are right on and he is a working watchmaker who knows his stuff. The 977 was a good quality movement. Now, the question of restoration begs the question as to whether you wanted your watch "correct" as it may have been when it left the jewelers for the first time, or "correct" as you received it. My experience is that hunter cases look cool, there is a bit of swagger associated with opening the case to tell the time, but, they are not nearly as handy as open face, (like PW are not as handy as wrist watches). If you are thinking of selling it would be money down the drain to put it into a hunter case (my opinion).

It currently doesn't run, obviously you all wouldn't know why (w/out looking), what would be a range I could expect to pay to get it in running shape?

Jamie, hard to estimate the repair and restoration of a "not running" watch without examining it in detail. Click on the underlined link in Rob Carter's above note and you should be able to contact him and make arrangements for him to look at it.

I have no clue in any of these matters! I have asked many questions & all have been answered kindly & informatively! I have noticed on other threads that most don't like to talk $$$ figures & I totally understand why. I basically was looking for a minimum/maximum range b4 I even started down the restoration road! Thanks to all helpful comments!

Jamie,

I would say that in all likelihood your watch should be cleaned, oiled, and adjusted for around $100-125. If it requires a new staff, perhaps as much as $50 more added to the COA price. If the mainspring is "set" and requires a new one add another $30 or so. So with a fresh COA, taking it apart, inspecting parts, wheels ,levers, jewels for problems and if none are found other than a new mainspring and a new staff probably will end up costing you around $225. If it doesn't require anything but a COA and NO parts then say $140 with postage should handle it, as long as the hairspring is still in good shape and not rusted. That's a "ballpark" quote for you so that there won't be any big surprises

We are here to help anyone interested in horology with their pursuits. Consider becoming a IHC185 member for a $12 annual fee and have access to all of our forums and to buy and sell here where you generally will find many knowledgeable folks selling products at 20-35% cheaper than other sales venues. It can be done here as there are NO fees for our members to buy or sell.

regards,
bb

Jamie, you make a good point. Looking at the picture of your watch, it looks pretty good. There is no way to tell anything about the Balance Staff, Mainspring or jewels until it is fully disassembled and cleaned.

Ballpark for your watch if you go to one of our members who is equipped for this work;

Disassemble Clean, inspect, lube and regulate; $85.00-$125.00

Other issues;
Replace Balance Staff; $65.00
Re-Poise and time with new staff; $45.00
Replace Jewels; $15.00/Jewel
Replace Broken mainspring; $25-50.00

Please respect the fact that we all are still learning all the time. Sight unseen quotes for pocket watches is unfair to you and to the person you ask.

I would never "hold" someone to any # given, I would & do understand that asking such a question is some what risky but yet would also most likely @ least get me in the ballpark! I do appreciate you for putting up such a detailed list! Honestly, I was just looking for a 0-500$ or 500-1000$, but your list is far more informative to the "estimated" value of each part & how it can all add up! Great stuff, thank you!

Nice recovery guys... I appreciate everyone sticking with this post and getting it right.

I too appreciate the updated numbers on the going rate for repairs... My clients need not worry anytime soon... but some adjustments will need to be made in my current scale.

I am curious what you all would suggest on moving forward w/ this watch? Find a hunters case for it? Should I start a new thread to get more members involved? I want to do the "right" thing....

I would get it running , leave it in that case for now , it may be one your grandfather picked, or if he was like mine found a deal ! and enjoy . I was talking to a friend the other day that told me that teachers don't teach how to tell time on a 12 hour dial , just digital . Hopefully some teachers and parents do
Ps I have had good service from Paul Davis, I hesitate to make a rec. because there are many talented watchmakers on this site

I can take the most detailed pic in the world w/ my camera, unfortunately it is to large of a file to upload! When I compress my file it loses it definition!

Would it be possible to determine what movement was 1st in this case by the position of original screw marks (pointed out above by Eugene)?

I see two set of screw marks in your case so it did have 2 different movements before, not surprise with those silver and gold cases,
IMHO I would just fix the watch and enjoy the way it is, great case and very hard to find dial.
What you will do is up to ya there is no wrong or right way, keep in mind good hunter cases come at a premium price.
Cheers and welcome to IHC185

that is a work of art , the little blemish won't be noticed when it is in the case . It really is a miracle when you see a perfect dial , to survive all those years is hard to imagine.

That's one of the prettiest dials I've ever seen.