I've recently become afflicted with an interest in old pocket watches and I picked up what looks like a basket case Waltham, 12S, 17 Jewel on eBay to play around with. Rusty face, no crystal, sets but won't run. I have de Carle's Practical Watch Repair which I've truly enjoyed.
I first uncased and recased the Waltham.
Then I figured out how to let down the spring. And today, I took it completely apart and reassembled it... and it doesn't work about the same way it didn't work to begin with. So that's good... I didn't make it worse!
So here are the questions:
1) On the end of the pallet with the guard pin, the pin appears in de Carle's book to stick straight out between the horns (or just below). Mine is bent at a 90 degree angle vertically to the shaft of the pallet. Is that wrong?
2) I hand wound the mainspring and stuck it back in the barrel. It kind of sprung out when I removed the cover, so I didn't see it first. The spring just has holes in each end... do they just fit over the tiny tabs on the inside of the barrel and on the center arbor? Or perhaps is mine broken off in some way and I just don't know it?

I'm planning on taking it apart and reassembling it a couple more times and then move on to cleaning and oiling. I have a some new dials coming, too.
Any help appreciated!

Mike, I admire your perspicacity!

Reagrding your questions, While many swiss watches have co-planar guard pin arrangements, Most American Pocket Watch Guard pins are sticking up at right angles from the plane of the Pallet fork. (some have other little wirnkles in them, but that is for their fuinction)

As for the main spring, that is sort of a common sense thing. If your spring arbor has a "pin" (whith thry usually do) then the hole in the moddle coil should work. If the Barrel ahas a "hook" than a hole at the outer end of the spring should be correct too. There are about 6 or 7 other combinations, so just be observant as you takeeach watch apart for what the details are.

Some suggestions from when I started, take some pictures of the movement, especially the setting parts so you have a reference to work to when re-assembling things. (pic example from my first watch class)

Mike,
To add to David's reply, if you have a guard pin that is sticking straight out from the fork, that means it's a double roller, straight up, (right angle) single roller.
On your watch not running, that's why I like to see people start out with a runnig watch. After you take it apart and reassemble, if it runs, you know you did it right. If not, you can go back and see what you've done wrong.
Brian C.

Hi, and thanks for the responses! Last night I took it apart again. Succeeded in replacing the dial with one I bought off ebay when I reassembled it. Not surprised that it still doesn't work, but I have some ideas...

How long should the Ratchet Wheel Screw be? Mine is a fraction of the lenghth of the transmission wheel screw. Like about 1/16 of an inch long. I'm thinking it might have sheered off? Your thoughts? Would that make the watch fail to wind the spring? That's what seems to be happening. I can turn the winder and the ratchet wheel turns in the watch, but no tension is developed...(when I move the clicker, nothing unwinds.) The ratchet wheen screw turns right along with the wheel.

I'm attaching a pic of the spring, barrel and cover. Do you see anything amiss in the pic?

My oiler and oil arrived today, so the next tear down, I'm going to give it some oil. Also... what is your best advice on cleaner? I don't want to buy an ultrasonic one yet... so just something to dunk the parts in... preferrably that I can find at a local store rather then buy offline and have to wait on.... Doesn't have to be the ultimate on this..... just what will get the job done. It's my practice watch, not a museum piece!

Thanks guys! This is starting to be fun!
--Mike

Hi Mike,
Your picture looks like the mainspring might be set but that's not your problem, yet.
Put the m/s over the barrel arbor and see if the springs loop is tight around the arbor. Also these 12s Waltham's are noted for the hole end of the spring sliping by the hook in the m/s barrel. If this is so, you will need to adjust the end of the spring. The m/s adjustments are shown in The Watch Repairer's Manual by Henry B. Fried. If you don't have this book, you need it, if you're going to work on watches. The book is great.
Brian C.
PS
If you don't have a mainspring winder, you need one of these as well.

Yay! More things to buy!

What does it mean that the spring may be "set"?

The older blue steel springs get basically a memory to them from being curled up all the time. The new alloy springs supposedly don' do this. Here is a picture of a new spring which is silver next to an old blue steel one.

Okay... so I've taken the watch apart again... this time, I discovered that I have a shattered jewel, and the mainspring still won't wind. First the jewel... I think I shattered it last time by not having the cover in the right place when I tightened the screws. Anyway... it is a pressed in setting without hold down screws... how hard is it to change and where can I find a new one?
And now the spring. I just want to replace it and see what happens. It's obviously set as described above, and I've done it no favors by winding it by hand. Where can I get a new one of those?
I'm beginning to understand the concept of starting with a working watch! I'm going to get a spring winder before I dig into it again.
--Mike

Mike

What is the serial number for the watch, that would help determine what mainspring you need. The jewel part gets a little harder, they came with various diameter holes to fit different size pivots on the staffs, maybe a picture of the movement & the area where the broken jewel is.

Tom

The serial number is 24770357. I'm thinking it's the second wheel pinon jewel...
I'm posting two pics... the first shows the whole watch, and the second, I actually shot through the loupe and labled the broken jewel. Not that it wasn't obvious.
So, whatcha' think?
--M

2nd pic...

Hi Mike

Your watch appears to be a Waltham 12s Model 1894, it is suppose to take a mainspring #2224A. As far as the jewel goes, I have limited experience doing replacing them but I think you will need a staking set or a Seitz jeweling tool to replace the jewel with.

One of the people that answered you above, Brian C. is where I buy most of my parts from, his answer above has a link to his email. Also if you search on ebay in the pocket watch cat. the numbers 2224A you should find a mainspring for sale (at least I just did).

If you go to page 252, Chapter 19 of de Carle's book that you mentioned you have you will see jewel tools.

Tom

Feels like I may be tumbling quickly in over my head! I searched for the Seitz tool and found one on ebay that closed over $200... way to rich for my blood.

Perhaps I should back up a step... What kind of setting is the offending jewel? Friction, Burnished, something else?

Does anyone have a suggestion on where to buy replacement jewels.. mounted or otherwise? I'd really like to tackle this, but I can't spend too much more on tools quite yet!

Mike

I have another movement exactly like yours that you can have to play with. I will email you to get your address.

Tom

Mike

Welcome aboard, I see you did go ahead & join, you will not regret it!

I mailed you a movement like yours & a running 16s Waltham to play with tonight.

Tom