I decided to clean a Hamilton 934 that I recently acquired. Tell me where I went wrong. I'm a big boy I can take it.

It is running sluggish so I took most of the watch apart and soaked everything in lighter fluid except the mainspring, dial and hands.

I reassembled everything and oiled all the jewels. I DID NOT open the mainspring and lube it since I have never done that before. I also have not put the dial and hands back on.

The movement barely runs. The only two things I can think of is maybe I put too much oil on the jewels even though I did not put very much on each jewel or the mainspring needs lubrication or replacing. If you put a winding stem in the winding stem hole and wind the movement all the way and hold pressure on the winding stem the watch does fine. When you let off the pressure the movement slows to a stop.

Let me have it. Tell me the good the bad and the ugly.

I"ll start.
By using lighter fluid to clean you movement you will not be able to properly Clean it. It is quite obvious that there is to much tension- resistant on the gear train.

How many watches have you successfully been able to clean this way.

Have you had any classes or been lucky enough to had a mentor. There are basic watch repair classes and would be a start in repairing /cleaning that is a starting point.

Did you peg the jewels. There are as many recommended cleaners as there are opinions as to which ones or correct. I use an L + R watch cleaner.

Here is a Link

Hello Eugene,

Thank you very much for taking the time to straighten me out. After all if someone doesn't correct me I don't know I'm doing anything wrong.

I have cleaned four or five watches this way. All work fine. I forgot where I read this information from but I learned it a few years ago. The article actually used something else but said lighter fluid was the same thing.

I have not had any classes or had a mentor. I figured you just take the watch apart, let soak, brush with a soft brush, put back together, oil and reasemble. And it has worked fine up to now and of course this is on already working watches.

I don't know anyone around me that collects watches and would be willing to show me how.

This watch was listed as working and untested. When I first got it the watch would run alittle then it stopped and I noticed the roller jewel had jumped out of the pallet fork. I figured I would clean it a place the roller jewel back in the pallet fork. I did this but notice that the balance wheel is very close ti the plate and after running a few seconds stopped again. I spun the balance wheel and the roller jewel jumpedout of the paller fork again.

When I clenaed the movement I did not take the jewels out. You asked if I pegged the jewels. I'm sorry to say I have not heard that term before so I don't really understand what you mean by that.

I will check out the link you sent and check back later.

Thanks

Harry, we have a whole section on watch repair that you might well peruse prior to future practice cleanings. Chris Abell one of our best known certified watchmakers gave us all a good start with his Watch Checklist that you can always find in the Watch Repair section. His advice is as follows;

I decided to write up what is called a 16 point check that is meant to be a guide to steps required to service a watch this is slightly bias towards a wrist watch but very relevant to pocket watches also: This is a guide and not the definitive answer after going through it a few times add you own additional tests and observations. This is of course for a basic time only non-automatic or any with additional features, I also leave out things like demagnetizing, actual cleaning procedures, a good chunk of common sense needs to be applied also as I say its meant as a good starting point to a correct disciplined procedure,
This is version 1 may add or edit/delete later.

Check number 1
a Check the winding to see if the mainspring is broken.
b Check to see if the setting bridge or sleeve is broken by pulling the stem out and testing the proper snap of stem. A broken setting bridge/sleeve is easily detected
c. The balance wheel should be oscillated to see that it is true and the balance pivots should be checked by looking through the upper jewel to see that there is not a flash on the pivot.
d. The hairspring should be checked to see that it is not damaged.
e Check setting of hands
f. The watch should be looked over in every respect, paying particular attention to any rust spots that may appear on any part of the movement. When rust is evident around the stem or setting mechanism, it is most important to remove the dial and hands in order to check this mechanism to see if the rust is very extensive.

Check Number 2

a. Examine each part as it is being removed from the movement.
b. Check for rust on every part.
c. Check every pivot to see that it is not damaged or bent.
d. Check the jewels in the watch, to see that there are no cracked jewels.
e. Check pallet stones to see that they are not chipped or damaged.
f. When removing barrel cap, make sure that it snaps off only after sufficient pressure has been applied to it.
g. In the examination of each part, a close check is not made at this time as many of the parts will not be clean enough for that purpose. a much closer check will be made on the parts as each part is handled in the assembly of the watch

Check Number 3

a. Upon completion of cleaning and parts removed from the basket into the assembly tray, each part should be checked over with the use of a watchmaker’s loupe special attention should be paid to the jewels, because if there is gum oil still remaining on the jewels, the cleaning job was not done satisfactory . It is also worthwhile at this time to examine the pivots. If the jewels are clean, and the pinion leaves are clean, it is almost certain that the cleaning operation was performed effectively.

Check Number 4

a. Examine the condition of the mainspring.
b. Check the width, strength and length of the mainspring.
c.. If correct, replace mainspring using correct mainspring winding tool, not by hand
d. Check the lubrication of the mainspring if required
e. Check the fit of the mainspring around barrel arbor.
f. check the mainspring end for proper shape to catch in barrel.
g. Check the snap of the cap on barrel and replace in correct position
h. Check the end shake and side shake of barrel arbor is it also sometime recommended to do this without mainspring fitted to test for free run and end shake
i. Check the cleanliness of the barrel and barrel teeth.
j. Check the oiling of the barrel arbor after the cap is on.
k. Check the condition of the barrel teeth to see if they are bent or worn.

Check Number 5

a. Jewel holes must be cleaned with peg wood if necessary.
b. Jewels must be checked for chips or cracks.
c. Check the train wheel pivots for rust, polish, cuts and straightness.
d. Check the pinions for rust’, pits and polish.
e. Check the pivots for pitting check that clean pith wood is being used.
f. Check plates for tarnish, fingerprints, and polish jewel settings.
g. Assemble time train and check end shake and side shake.
h. Check wheels for trueness arid upright.
i. Lift each wheel with tweezers to check for end shake and to see if each wheel is free enough to fall back to its original position.
j. Spin train to see that is spins freely, in dial up, dial down and a vertical position.

Check Number 6

a. Replace barrel and barrel bridge and check the oiling of the barrel arbor upper and lower bearing.
b. Check oiling of crown wheel.
c. Replace ratchet wheel.
d. Note: do not oil remainder of movement until after kick-back is checked or cap jewels are present oil those now
e. Wind watch slightly to check kick-back and recoil. This check should be made in dial up and dial down positions. If the watch does not have kick¬back, this indicates that the train is not as free as it should be. First, however, before checking into the train itself to determine if there is some frictional error, it would be worthwhile to examine the mainspring around the barrel arbor. Many times the loose fit of the mainspring around the arbor will prevent kick-back from occurring within the train. In such instances, the arbor is simply slipped in the mainspring instead of the train receiving the reversal torque, that normally occurs. If the barrel is found to be satisfactory, then the train. should be checked to see if the trouble can be located. first, the train should be examined carefully to see if each wheel is free, and if no trouble can be found, then it is advisable to remove the train wheels from the watch and replace each wheel in the watch individually and to check the spin of each wheel. If each wheel spins freely, this indicates that the pivots and the jewels are in good condition and that one need not look further for defects or faults in those areas. Next, place two wheels at a time in the watch and check the spin of the wheels. Thus, any error of improper depthing or a badly formed tooth on a wheel or pinion will be detected. It is simply a process of elimination in order to locate the particular trouble, and of course, proper corrective measures must be taken to correct an error when one is found.

Check Number 7

a. Oil all the train jewels in the watch, and at this point it is advisable to oil also the balance jewels.
b. Check to see that there is a ring of oil around each train pivot and that the jewels are not over-oiled or under-oiled.
c. Check the jewels that have caps to see that the globule of oil has been formed properly between the flat cap and curved hole jewel and no keyhole shape if so remove re clean jewels and check seating the re oil and repeat check for perfect ring.

Check Number 8

a. Oil stem properly.
b. Oil friction parts of setting.
c. Oil wolf teeth of clutch wheel and winding pinion.
d. Oil clutch wheel groove.
e. Oil points on setting lever that contact the setting bridge or the clutch lever.
f. Never oil dial train. Note: ‘dial train means all wheels following center wheel staff.
g. Seek expert advice on some types of intermediate wheels connecting clutch at setting positions that require oil.

Check Number 9

a. Check condition of pallet arbor pivots.
b. Check for chipped or loose stones, shellac or gummed oil on pallet stones.
c. Check guard pin for straightness and proper shape.
d. Check polish of pallet arbor, pivots and fork slot.
e. Check end shake of pallet fork.
f. Check height of pallet stones in conjunction with escape wheel teeth.
g. Check matching stones.
h Check drop lock
i. Inside and outside drop.
j. Draw.
k. Hang-up of stones on escape wheel teeth.

Check Number 10

a. Check tightness of roller jewel in roller table - uprightness of roller jewel.

b. Check the height of the balance wheel in conjunction with the fork bridge and the center wheel.

c. Check the clearances.
d. Check the height of the guard pin in relation to safety roller.
e. Check the proper length of roller jewel and fit of roller jewel to fork slot.
f. Check the guard clearance.
g. Check the corner clearance.
h. Check the jewel pin shake.
i. Check the guard test,
j. Check the corner test.

Check Number 11.

a. Check the hairspring in-the-flat.
b. Check the hairspring in-the-round.
c. Check the quadrant of the hairspring to see that it is formed properly between the regulator pins and stud
d. Check for beat of the watch by equalizing the force to receiving and discharge pallets.
e. Check for the collet wobble.
f. Check for trueness of the balance wheel, and for the flash of the balance pivots
g. Check for trueness of roller table.

Check Number 12

a. Place the watch on the timing machine and take a rate in the dial down position, then turn the movement over to dial up position and take a rate. There are three things that should be observed from the rate that was taken:
1. Dial up should indicate the same time as dial down.
2. Observe the closeness of the lines to determine if the watch is in perfect beat.
3. Observe how the watch is running in reference to the time error over a 24-hour period.
b. Adjust the mean time rate of the watch so that the dial up and dial down positions will record on time. Do not move the regulator more than one degree in adjusting the mean time rate. Any other alteration must be made by adjusting mean time screws or by adding or removing weight from the balance wheel in such a manner as not to affect poise, static or dynamic,.
c. If the rates in dial up arid dial down are found to be different from one another, then this indicates a mechanical error in the watch which must be traced out before proceeding.

d. If the watch is found to be out-of-beat, then of course, it should be put r in proper beat at this time. We might emphasize that if the watch was put in proper beat in accordance with the proper procedure at the bench, then an out-of-beat condition or minimal amount would not be indicated on the timing machine.
e. When the above conditions have been satisfied, the next step would be to take a rate in positions and errors corrected. If everything has proved to be satisfactory, the watch should be tested for isochronal test be made on the timing machine, which consists of
re-testing at different winding levels and rate in the dial up position.

Check Number 13

a. Check for proper lubrication of cannon pinion on center post.
b. When replacing the cannon pinion, be sure that the leaves of the cannon pinion do not come down on top of the minute wheel teeth so as to bend the teeth of the minute wheel.
c. Check tightness of. cannon pinion
d. Check to see that cannon pinion does not ride up when watch is being set. and smooth consistent operation.

Check Number 14

a Make sure that the hands are fitted securely to the parts to which they are attached
b. Make sure that the hands are adjusted so that there is equal space between the hands and the hands are set as close to the dial as possible.

c. Check to be sure that the hands are shaped to the contour of the dial.

d. Check to see that\ the hands are positioned so that they are synchronized with one another.

Check Number 15

a. If there is no case for the movement, simply disregard this check and proceed with the next check, number 16.
b. Check for proper snap/screw back of the case.
c. Check for the clearance of the hands under the crystal.
d. Check the crystal to see that it is securely fitted into the case.
e. Check to see that the crown is next to the stem and reasonably close to the case.
f. Check for tightness of movement in case.
g. Check the spring bars to see that proper spring bars are used for the particular type of case so that the band is held securely to the case.
h. Check the lug holes to see that they have not been worn badly by the spring bars to a point where the hole may break through and allow the spring bar to come out of place.

Check Number 16

a. Set the watch on time with a master clock.
b. Let the watch run for a period of 24 hours and check the error in the time repeat in several positions.
c. Allow the watch to run until it completely runs down and check the length of run. The watch should run a minimum of 30 hours, preferably 40 hours, if it is in “A. 1” condition

Try replacing the mainspring. It may be too weak to properly cause the movement to run.

Harry,

Do everything David said; it seems like a lot But seriously, you're dealing with small, precision machinery and to get that movement performing to original specifications, there are many things you must pay attention to and David really covered them well. It's all about observation and recognizing damage/problems and correcting those problems properly using very specific tools and practices. Eventually, through experience, you'll be able to cure almost any sickness that afflicts a watch. This 934 Hamilton is a very simple machine but the parts are small which requires the repairer to possess one of the most important things in watchmaking; high quality and comfortable magnification....you must start there. Fortunately, all other tools required are available, from both the used and new market.

A sluggish balance can be the product of many conditions, using lighter fuel as a cleaner might be one, but there are more. Observe, study and understand to your best the workings of the basic Swiss detached lever escapement...these are present in every American mass produced watch ever made; coincidental occurrences such as: lock, depth of draw/banking, impulse, safety, arc of balance, poise of balance, truth of hairspring, etc. all play into the the physics and geometry of what made these great timekeepers what they were...and what they can be today.

Getting these timepieces to run well, let alone hold RR accuracy can be quite a task but it is usually possible, provided the said watch hasn't been horribly abused somehow.

None of us here knows everything, but we're always here to help.

William

Thank you David, Mike, and William.

Eugene had sent me that same link David posted and I dd read it last night. I never new there were so many steps involved in cleaning a watch that was already running. It was mind boggling.

I looked up the L&R watch cleaner and solution also. I also looked up the glass jars that David mentioned. It looks like just to get started it will cost close $175. Of course it would be well worth it but I would have to enjoy cleaning watches doing it this way. But then I would still need to be more experienced in observing worn parts (mainly jewels). It is easy to spot a cracked or broken part but one that is just worn will take some practice.

Go ahead and yell at me for what I'm about to say. Yes I do know the health rick evolved. What about acetone? It should clean and leave no residue and I have some already. If it will clean the parts then I can see if cleaning will be more trouble than it is worth or whether I like it or not. I would not put the pallet fork or roller jewel in there as they are shellacked and I would be the acetone would dissolve the shellack.

I had searched the site for just cleaning instructions but Chris's is all I could find and to be honest it was very intimidating. I am not interested in getting my watches to RR time. I don't carry them and in 5 or 10 years sitting around they would not keep RR time anyway not to mention I have no way of timing them.

Chris has one of my watches now. Chris is a wonderful person and knows his craft well. I don't mind sending Chris a special watch for him to take care of for me. But I would go bankrupt if I sent Chris all my watches or him to clean. That is why I had decided to clean it myself and to be honest the lighter fluid always worked before but I don't think the other watches were in as bad a shape as this one.

I will try my best to do what David suggest and use Chris's list and see what happens. If it still doesn't want to go I will venture into new territory as Mike suggest and replace the mainspring. Of course I will have to figure out which mainspring to use but that should not be hard at all. I have a book that should tell me how to change a mainspring and grease one also.

I did not realize that the American Watch companies use the Swiss detach lever escapement so I will study that also.

I do have a lot of magnification. I have an opti-visor with 2.75 magnification I wear on top of my reading glasses and it also has a 5 power lens that folds down over my right eye. And I also have loops if I need them.

Thank all of you for your help and advice.

Harry

Harry, we have some members near you who are doing watch service now. Maybe you could arrange to visit them for a few helpful ideas. As for the 16 point watch inspection, these are things that must be considered when a watch is serviced, and the amount of time needed for the service could vary a lot depending on the work that is needed to make it right.

Followeing that schedule, I can do 3 "Healthy" watches in an Afternoon, but lord knows how long when I end up with a sick one.

Thank you David. The thing that concerns me about the 16 point check list is I would not recognise a problem. Since I don't know what a good prart should look likw as compared to a worn part. I can tell if a jewel is cracked or chipped but how do I know it is worn? I just lack the confidence and expetience to tackle such a job. I am willing to jump right in but I would feel more comfortable with someone watching or guiding me through my first 16 point check and clean.

I would love to visit with some of my fellow IHC185 members that live around here that would be willing yo show me the ropes so to speak but how do I find out who they are and even if they just collect or if they do clean their own watches. Any assistance in finding out and contacting them would be of great help.

Thanks,
Harry

Harry, our very own Phil Sanchez lives in your area.

Thank you David. I have had a few email conversations with Phil. A very nice guy. I new he was a collector but I did not know he cleaned his own watches. He spends his summers in North Georgia about 2 hours drive from me. Phil spends his winters in Florida. I'm not sure where and I'm not sure when he comes back to north Georgia. Thanks for the information. David do you think it would be alright to post if there were anyone in the north Georgia area that would be willing to teach me and see if anyone relies? I'm not sure of the ethics involved? That might put some members off. What do you think?

You could post for some "personal help" and request they e-mail you to your e-mail address with the post.

I'll tell you what puts me off Harry, it's the possibility of getting a watch that turns out to be all messed up because it was worked on by someone who didn't know what he was doing and just made it up as he went along.

I suggest you make all possible use of the resources available to you, to learn how to do things the right way as soon as you can.

I was wondering what the "Bulldog" Phil was doing in Florida!!! I think there are a few of us that live in the North GA area, including me although I put Atlanta when I first joined. I might mess around with 7 jewel watch as a learning tool but anything over that I pass on until I am really comfortable and 7j's are not quite a dime a dozen but not very expensive for training purposes.

Harry, besides you Claude and me the only other members that I know who live in NE Georgia are Tony Dukes and Rob Jones. They don't work on watches to resell and neither do I. I just know enough to get in trouble.... from there I go to Chris.
There are courses offered through Ebay that are very good if you apply yourself. I have one that took me through the 7 jewel Elgin taking it apart, cleaning and putting it back together. If you want more than that you will have to go to the horological school.
Now that doesn't help you very much.

I want to thank all of you for your help and suggestions.

David thanks for your suggestion about placing a personal help posting. I will let it ride and see if someone that lives near me offers to meet and show me the ropes.

Ed I completely agree with you and that is what I am trying to avoid. I do not want to make a mess out of any of my watches. I have books I have read and I have a couple of DVD's. That is how I have learned what little I know about watches. I have successfully changed about one half dozen balance staffs without any problems and about the same amount of jewels. That is how I learned about the lighter fluid that is not to popular with most people. Of all the watches I've cleaned with this method only this latest watch is the only one that did not work afterwords. I am now changing my method of cleaning.

I searched the site on cleaning and oiling watches and Chris's checklist is all that came up. I was not wanting something that detailed. I just wanted to give the working watch a little tune up. I now see that is a bad way of working with watches. Chris's checklist I am sure will become natural with me after a few tries.

I am using IHC185 as a learning tool also to go with my few books and DVD's. The members here can explain things the DVD and books can not.

Cluade that you for your input also. I'm not afraid to take apart a 17 jewel movement. I do not have any problems putting things back the way I found them. Until I end up with extra parts that I'm not suppose to have I'll keep trying and I'll keep asking questions and searching the site for answers. Where you can not ask a book for clarification you can seek help from your fellow members.

Phil it probably snowed on your North Georgia home last night. Don't you wish you were there to see it. I will check Ebay out and see what they have to offer. I was not aware Ebay had such things. This is a hobby and as such I have no desire to take a horological course. Like you I prefer to repair the simple issues with my watches. I have no desired to repair watches and sell them. I just want to be able to fix my watches. Enjoy the weather down there.

Thank you all for your help and support and I will listen to each suggestion I get. Thanks again.

Harry,
As a watch is used or stored beyond its overdue service and often to a point where it grinds to a halt, close examination will reveal oils and grease have evaporated leaving a gum/wax which had gathered all kinds of metal fragments, dirt, grit etc which prior to finally stopping the watch would have been grinding away pinions/parts. We have another post in the pocket watch section where a person has a new magic machine (no doubt similar to my fully automated ultrasonic machine) in which he inserts complete watch movements in, a more advanced version of your lighter fluid dip, it will dissolve some of the gum enough to free the movement to start running again but you may well have washed this grinding paste back in and around critical parts and in most cases may run well for months/years, if we also add a follow up advanced rinse with dry lubrication(solo/duo lube) built in it may appear to be fine if the jewels, plates etc are not 100% clean it would migrate any applied oils away, they also coat the entire watch with same dry lube, this will be causing undue wear to the watch and add to the cost of a full service later, fast evaporating quick fix cleaners similar to your lighter fluid will also cause condensation leading to rust if you heat the watch to avoid the condensation it may also dry the little bit of re-liquefied lubricants. As you have the benefit of unlimited time as a hobbyist the best thing you could do is practice disassembly and re assembly of cheaper watches even just parts watches at first, try repeating it on the same movement numerous times once comfortable try a working watch and see how many time you can repeat it and keep it running, its all about practice, the weekend courses are a good introduction and lots of advice here when you run into problems, like all hobbies you will need to invest start up equipment, for about the cost of a couple of rounds of golf would get you well underway.

Thank you Chris for your advice. I will leave my prize watches to the experts (you) but I am interested in learning to clean my own watches (the common ones). Your explanation makes since the way you explain it. Of course the publication that recommended the lighter fluid did not go into all the what if's and such. In fact the article used another name and then said lighter fluid was the same thing as the main chemical was the same. I appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail what was actually happening.

I'm not sure what weekend classes you are talking about. I have never seen any offered around here. I will search and see if I can find anything. As this is a hobby and I have not desire to do it for a living I would of to take a few courses. I searched Ebay last night for the instructional material Phil was talking about but it was late and the light over our family PC burned out so it was difficult to see so I quit but I am still searching.

I will practice as you suggest. I have several 7 jewel movements that I can use. Thanks again for the advice.

Harry, here is a link. I am not able to give a personal recommendation. It is one of many that I found with a Google search

Watch repair video

Thank you Phil. I did not think of Google. I was trying to find something on Ebay. I have often found better prices from Googling and a lot of times I ended up on Amazon.com Thanks for the tip. I found something on Ebay I was looking at but I'll compare what you found along with a search on Amazon. I'm sure I will find something from those three sites. Thanks for the help.

HI FOLKS
I HAVE THIS VIDOE AND WILL SEND IT TO ANYBODY HERE FOR 5 BUCKS IF THEY PROMISE TO SEND IT TO THE NEXT PERSON FOR THE SAME AND WHEN EVERY ONE IS DONE I GET IT BACK. I ALSO HAVE ONE DONE BY ANOTHER GUY.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO BARROW IT.
THIS IS MY EMAIL ADDRESS lacat@ frontiernet.net.
THIS IS MY PHONE 607-863-3736
THANKS
LEONARD

Hello Leonard I'll be happy to take you up on the offer. I have to run right now but I'll get in touch in a while.

Harry