Is it me or do you agree there's just something missing in those metal dials. The word "fake" screams out at me. I'd like to learn more about metal dials. When did they surface? Are they put only on RR pocket watches? Higher end pocket watches? Are they somewhat valuable?

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

There are metal dials and there are **METAL DIALS**. Certainly many of the aftermarket and reproduction dials leave something to be desired in quality and aesthetics. But the watch companies ultimately started making their own quality dials. The attached announcement from Waltham's 1909 material catalog explains some of the situation. More common on the smaller size watches (14-size and smaller) they were also available on the larger watches.

Metal dials reached a pinnacle (in my opinion) in the dress watches (10 to 14-size). Many had etched numbers and markings filled with enamel and carved centers. Solid silver dials often had individual numbers of 14K gold riveted to the dial. A customer paid extra to have the fancier dials, supplied from the manufacturer. I have seen exquisite factory-original metal dials on watches from most of the American companies. Illinois supplied particulary elegant dials. A couple other examples are in this thread -- https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=3206049661&f=5656047761&m=7966020003
In this case, both are Swiss-made for the watch company. The first example I know is factory original.

[I am speaking mostly about American watches here. The Swiss and English used fine metal dials somewhat earlier].

[This message was edited by JerryT on August 17, 2003 at 15:07.]

Here is an example of four very ornate (perhaps even gaudy) dials from some high-end Waltham dress watches from the 1920s.

A very nice example of a metal dial on a RIGID BOW Illinois - 17SIZE - 23 Jewel - SANGAMO SPECIAL.

For another nice ornate metal dial, check out scan at:

NAWCC-IHC 185 "Timekeepers Photo Gallery"

Exclusive "Timekeepers Photo Gallery" ---- HUGE SILVER KW/KS

I like the metal dials for appearance sake, but must agree that they are difficult to keep looking nice.

Phil Dellinger

Here's another example of a homely metal dial. Yellow gold with rose gold hands and numerals, applied gold decorations in green, rose, white, maybe some blue in there too.

In addition to the "homely" metal dial like the one in the scan above , some of the major manufacturers started making silvered dials for railroad service. When new, they were advertised to be easier to read in poor light than the traditional plain porcelain enamel dials. They sold for a premium over the porcelain dials as well, which may be one reason why they are not as common on RR grade movements as the enamel dials. Today, many RR collectors distain these dials, perhaps because they tended to discolor and darken with age. Please note, I am referring only to the factory original dials, not the cheaper thin aftermarket dials or the more modern reproduction dials that don't come close to the quality of the originals.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC 49688
IHC Member 34
The Escapement

The Illinois 12S did have some fine metal dials. Here's a couple of shots... This one is very simple and found on an 11J 12S Illinois...

Mike Miller

And one a little fancier found on a 12S 17J Illinois "The Autocrat"

Mike Miller

Ed's quite right in his reply above.

Please, someone, post a picture of a 1908 Vanguard WI with a metal dial. I have two or three, but no pictures at the moment!

Those dials are die struck (like a coin), and they have porcelain enamel melted into the figures, which as the catalog claims, makes them "practically indestructible."

As best I recall, when new porcelain dials sold for $0.50 each, those were $3.00.

=======================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

Jerry T.,
Thanks for the invaluable info you posted regarding metal dials!

The four metal dials are beautiful! You have posted some fine examples of metal dials.

Phil D.,
Thanks!

John A.,
Home metal dial? More like fancy metal dial! Beautiful!!


Ed,
Thanks for your info!!

Mike,

Thanks for your pics, nice Illinois!


Thanks to you guys I now have a new appreciation for metal dials!

Thanks again fellas!!!

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

I got this Waltham 12s today. I was drawn by the dial, then the back of the case.

Here is the case.

Very nice example, Tom . . . many folks think that these may very well be the next Hot item in PW collecting . . . if so, you certainly have a nice jump start with this one.

Timely regards,

Stephanie, Great Post. I have a new appreciation for them now too!

I have NEVER seen any this nice. The only examples I had, were some really terrible ones, that I got because they were tossed in the mail with a buy. WOW what a difference.

Nothing like dustin off an old thread and bringing it back to life. Thanks Tom Sey, I certainly can see why you were drawn to your new/old watch. Very nice!

Thanks Sheila, glad you enjoyed the thread!