In recent years, I have paid "too much" for rare items. The worrying about over paying only goes away when I am offered more for the items that I bought. In hind sight nearly all these purchases were cheap.

I think that only mistaken rarity leads to unrecoverable spending. Example; the 950E never was worth 4 grand. The more you know the better deal you will make at any price!

Robert

What do our Bunn Special collectors feel the Arabic version of the 23J dial should be worth?

Or the more common Montgomery or Arabic "23 jewel 60 hour" Bunn Special dials?

Fred

Fred...Are you asking about the variant dials that recently sold on E-Bay, or Getty dials, or Sangamo dials....Robert

I meant for the other variations of the 23 jewel 60 hour marked Bunn Special dials ...

- Arabic marked "Illinois Bunn Special, 23 Jewel 60 Hour"

- Montgomery marked "Illinois Bunn Special, 23 Jewel 60 Hour"

- Arabic marked "Illinois 23J Bunn Special, 60 Hour 6 Positions"

Fred

Fred, from what I am hearing the 1st marked dial you are asking about, which is the most common, usually brings around 800 in perfect shape. The 2nd dial which is the marked Montgomery is around 1200 on today's market, however the 3rd dial is the plain marked "Flying J" which has seen a jump in price and these are exchanging hands off line at the 14-1500 dollar level. Of course the Montgomery "Flying J" is in a league of it's own as we have all seen last week.

Again to others , (Fred is well aware of this) please look these dials over VERY carefully, one hairline knocks off 50% of the value. Of course there are refinished dials out there as well, so be very careful, they have a "wet" look to them and you should avoid them except for minimum prices of say a couple hundred dollars or just for fun of show and tell.

Hope this helps and maybe other folk can fine tune or critique my "values" or appraisal here, but I should be close judging by Daytona and a few private sales I am aware of. Happy Hunting!

First, to answer Adam's earlier question, the absolute best Illinois reference I recommend reading and studying very carefully is the late Bill Meggers' Illinois Encyclopedia. This masterful work will never, ever be obselete, it is a 'must-have' and it is available from the publisher as item "APWE2" right here...

ORDER THIS ONE: (APWE2) "ILLINOIS, American Pocket Watch Encyclopedia"

Back to specifics, for those who might not be familiar with the five variant dials for the highest grade Bunn Special movements here is an interesting 'primer' topic...

TOPIC: "Now that the wonderful Bunn 163 auction is over..." in our "Pocket Watch Discussions" forum.

Be patient, scroll down into that topic, LOOK AT THE FIVE DIAL IMAGES!

Perhaps those images of the variant dials will be of help to understanding our passion.

One look at Ged's clock will show you this is not in any way an isolated situation.

"And the beat goes on"

Fred...I priced a "Flying J" 23J Non Montgomery dial with a well known dealer at the Salem Va. show. I was offered the dial for $1,400 US. It looked high so I walked. The dial was sold in Daytona for $1,500.
The prices that I have observed, have been right in line with Mike C's appraisal.

Robert

A question from the unimformed or in my case the under-informed,, what do you mean by the flying J ,,i must be missing something.

Samie....Those of us that follow 16's 60hr Bunns use this name instead of saying 23J at the top. It is less confusing than describing the difference in the dial with '23 Jewel 60 Hour' over the second bit.

<-----"Flying J" Dial.

Robert

PS This term was coined by me.

Both the standard and Montgomery variants of Bunn Special dial with "23J" or "Flying J" ABOVE are also more often referred to as the "SIX POSITIONS DIALS" as they are the only Bunn Special dials with "six positions" printed on them. They are marked in an arc above the seconds quadrant with "60 HOUR 6 POSITIONS" and 23J was added (or moved) to between the upper lines of Illinois and Bunn Special printing. This was not done in similar fashion with the 21 Jewel dials.

All other "marked" ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL dials will have 23 JEWEL 60 HOUR (or 21 JEWEL 60 HOUR) in an arc above the seconds quadrant and ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL above the center hole.

An ILLINOIS BUNN SPECIAL (MARKED DIAL) for the 60-hour 21 JEWEL watch was also never made in the MONTGOMERY style and I have always wondered why, as it would surely have been popular with all those buyers that bought 60-hour 21 jewel Bunn Specials (such as type III's, 161's, 161-E's and 161-A's) that the marked dials were offered with.

Best regards,
Larry

I have been following this thread and it has raised a question in my mind. I have noticed quite a few watches being parted out and the sum of the parts seems to be more than the whole watch. My question is: Would the value of the watch with this rare dial on it originally, have been more than the price of this dial added to the case and movement that remain? Assuming they were the proper models in reasonable condition. In other words, did selling this dial destroy a $12,000 or higher value watch?

Keith...IMO when you get into the $12,000 range, 16s 23j Illinois the parts willl NOT bring more than the whole.....Robert

Does anyone know, if this information can be shared, if any of the several dials sold by the "flying j" seller were from donor watches or had been laying around for 40 or so years? I am just a curious newbie outside the loop.