I think I have accepted this situation but I still can't explain it....

At the L.A. Regional, I bought 3 beautiful Elgins, with fancy dials. The cases are all lovely; one is 14k and two are YGF.

The most spectacular case is a J.Boss, hunter, very thick and with a flat, highly engraved body. It is quite heavy but it is definitely a gold-filled case. It is clearly maked "Warranted 20 yrs) and it has original case-papers that match the case numbers and identify it as gold-filled.

So.... today, I began my service and general clean-up of it. When I removed the movement, I was surprised to find, inside the case body, a band of very shiny gold, marked "J.A.S. Boss 14K."
This looks like gold and has gold markings that are as elaborate as any I've seen. It also accounts for the heavy-weight of the case body.

I am told that this is, indeed, a band of solid 14k gold. The explanation that I was given was that it was meant to prevent metal interaction (or somesuch) in the thick, thick case.

I'm convinced that this is indeed a solid gold band inside a gold-filled case but I'm still not sure as to why. Has anyone seen this or know any explanation?

This photo shows the thick case and the watch-papers that identify it as gold-filled.

This is the band of 14k gold, inside the case body.

I have seen this insert in cases... may have one marked 10K also....... but don't remember which watch it is on right now...

how did u test for solid gold.....?

I thought perhaps these were a dust ring....

had a discussion once with an ebay seller offering an empty case and they said the case was solid gold because of that marking.....

not knocking the case or anything...just ....wanna learn .........

I didn't test the ring for gold and I probably won't. To me... it makes absolutely no difference. There are some very fancy gold-filled cases that, in mint condition, are worth as much as a solid gold one... at least to collectors.

But... the marking is so elaborate. It is not just a 14k stamp. And... after identifying their case as gold-filled, with case papers and with the 20 yr Warranty..... why mark the spacer at all, except if it is different (solid gold)?

This is obviously a high-end case. It sounds crazy but I wonder if they put that spacer in there just to add heft to the case.

I have a case with this band also. Kind of shocking at first.

JBoss patented the gold filled process and I am quite sure they never made a solid gold case. I would like to hear from anyone that has a solid gold JBoss marked case.

I convinced myself that it was a gold filled band. Have not had it tested.

OK... I'm beginning to be convinced that it's gold-filled!

It doesn't matter to me.... it's not going to the smelter in any case. Gold or gold-filled, it's very interesting and another indication of a high-quality case.

I'm learning:

Things get very interesting when you take things apart!

Peter - is this a hunting case? I have often seen this ring used for a dual purpose on a hunting case:
1) to help hold the lift and catch springs in place
2) as a dust ring to protect the movement from dust coming in where the lift and catch springs come through the bezel

Yes.... it's a hunter! I ought to have it serviced and recased tomorrow. New looking, Elgin, 15J gilded movement. Perfect plates, not a single cracked jewel. Fancy dial, not a hairline. Ornate gold hands.

16sz too, 1906.

I'm a sucker for this stuff!

nice looking dial there....

the examples I have seen have been open face..

Well.... I have a VERDICT.... but first....

It didn't matter to me if the ring was solid gold or gold-filled. I was keeping it anyway. But... it nagged at me. So... today, we pried the ring up just a tad. It's friction set and tight. We got just enough of it above the case so that we could apply a stone to it for testing.

VERDICT= GOLD FILLED!

here is one i dug out here....

case mark inside curvette

it is a triple hinge open face...

decently engraved.... darn plastic crystal...

17j bunn movement fits tight though...

another view of the mark...

Looks like you got yourself some really good deals. I just love those fancy dials too.

Can you tell me who made the 14k case?

Even the 0s in 14k run over $500.00 these days, so that's pretty good, AND you got a Fancy dial in there too! WOW!

OH! and this is some great information on the J Boss cases that I didn't know about. Thanks you guys.

Hi Sheila:

The 14k case is a Keystone... well marked. It has a bit of wear but it's still pretty sharp. As the photos show, it opens to a tab more than 90 degrees and I noticed that the front cover hinge is just a bit loose.... not enough to warrant a repair. It's 16sz.

The bow is obviously not original. It's gold-filled and worn. I've located an NOS replacement but it too is GF.

I used to have a rule that I would buy just about any 16sz gold hunter for $500 and have recently raised that to $600. When gold starts to rise in price, our cases die in the smelter. Even gold-filled cases can be as much as 30% gold. A fancy YGF hunter case in mint condition, these days, is worth as much or more as a worn 14K.

That watch is now sitting at the shop, on the movement holder, running pretty well.... after a bit of a struggle. The movement's condition mirrors the wear that I saw on the case and someone had been "in" the movement as evidenced by a boogered-up hairspring and new regulator pins. I put it right but it took awhile. Elgin 15Jewels, gilded 3/4 plate.

Here's the back cover:

Front Cover open:

Yep! you did indeed get some good deals.

There's nothing like a case that's real sharp and looks great. I have one case that looks Brand New and I just love it, it's 14k only an 0s, but it's one of my L&Co Pansy's, that's so crisp and clean that I enjoy just looking at the case!!!

It even has sharp edges and is stiff to open, but the best of all is, the Bow is tight and there's not a mrrk on the case anywhere.

Thank you for sharing your watches.

one of the old 'rules of thumb' for keystone cases was if it had the scales marking, it was a twenty year case, and if the scales have a crown over them, a twenty-five year case...

now here yours has scales
mine has scales
yours not marked ( but has 14k mark on ring)
mine marked 15 year and has 10k mark on ring

Peter's is marked 14k on ring, case paper says 20 year.. ( peter, does yours have scales marking?)

Charlie... your markings?

i still think integeral dust ring.... jmho... and have been wrong as hedoubletoothpicks...

hmmmmmmmmmmm


.

Terry:

1. Back cover (under case papers)= Scales with crown.

2. Cuvette = "Guaranteed, J. Boss 14k, 20 years"

3. Front cover = Scales with crown.

You have the photo of the case papers.

Now my problem is that I spent so much time, making sure that those ornate hands didn't hang on each other, or hit the crystal, that I set the second hand too low and I have a circular mark on this perfect dial. I'll have to see if I can clean that up. Thank heaven it's not melamine!

Lindell:

Shugart has not raised it's prices on gold cases in several years... while gold has skyrocketed in price.

My $500.00 rule was originally based upon Shugart's price for a fancy or heavy gold-hunter in Ex-Fine (but not mint)condition. I find that many of these gold watches (and ladies watches) are in much better condition than their hard-working railroad brethren).

At L.A., I decided to bump Shugart $100.00 based upon the rise in gold prices. Also, I was willing to pay more for the flawless, fancy, glass dials!

As our resident "market-maker,: --- do you agree?

Lindell!!!

uuuhhh, uuuhhh, uhhh.

That's me hitting myself for not seeing your Gold Case Auction! What a Deal!

I had to lay low for a while, sometimes you just gotta regroup.

I also found this information to be so good, and I DID indeed have some misconceptions about the J Boss watch cases. I never realized that they were ALL Gold Filled. Nice to know.

Peter,
VERY MUCH!

When you find that almost ALL of the Fancy Dialed, 14k, 0s, on ebay are going for at least $500.00 and they are not even in good shape sometimes, then $600.00 for a pristine model is a serious deal. (Great Deal) in my book.

Since I'm usually looking at the Fancy Dialed size 0s, that are 14k, I know what I'm talking about. They have gone up a huge amount and the competition is huge too.

Of course ebay does not hold a candle to what you can find at a mart, so how much more is it worth to a collector when it's a WELL KEPT, WELL MAINTAINED WATCH!!!! WOW!

I also noticed that the book seems to be behind about a lot more watches lately. I think the prices have gone up considerably across the board and they have not even taken notice.

It like they say, "To each his own" it's WE who decide what a watch is worth anyway.

Let's face it, I would pay a lot more for an Elgin than most, their my favorite watch!

You made a GREAT Deal for yourself, ENJOY!!!!

I was aware that the crowns were just about all GF but I have been able to find gold bows. But... when I found two GF bows for the 14K case, I grabbed them. I didn't expect to find a 14k bow.

By the way.... we have a weird tool, at the shop, that will mill out those round bow ends. I haven't used it, personally.... yet! Stay tuned!

Tom,

Your absolutely correct with one exception, some of the ones I'm looking for, aren't sold in the marts, or anywhere but ebay, second, the extra Diamonds on the cases!

I'll agree that if I was looking for just an Elgin with a gold case, then I could buy right here, and get some wonderful deals, but I buy a private label watch (Pansy) that I have only seen on ebay and one other place, and the ones I have purchased recently are also filled with diamonds in the cases.
As soon as some see the diamonds on a case they buy them for way more than they should go for. So, high price for me too!

Right now I'm only buying the Pansy trademark and almost all of them are Very Fancy Dialed, with signed movements, with Diamond or very fancy Cases.

There's no question that watches from my chapter, and I would assume, any NAWCC Mart, would be far better than anything on ebay, but sometimes you do what you have to do to get the watch you want.

I've been thrilled with what I have purchased from the online marts, and the quality has been so much better, that there's no question that they are much better than ebay.

I just happen to be in the unfortunare position of buying a watch that has become a fad item for new collectors, seems the fancier the better, and the more they will pay.
Now, when you find a Pansy, I will be glad to buy it from you!!!!!!!

Pansy on the Dial, Movement, and the Case!

OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you find one, "Lets make a Deal"

Oh and I forgot to mention that I have also purchased a Pansy for only $76.00.

terry

My inside ring is marked JAS. BOSS 14K

Cuvette is marked keystone with Co inside serial #2066163.

back lid marked crown over scales same serial #

It is my favorite case with inlaid gold train. This is from my days of GIANT pictures.