As you can see in the image it has a very attractive movement. But the markings seemed a little unusual to me. Train bridge is marked "Waltham" and then "17-Jewels" but what struck me as peculiar is that circle around the "17" numeral. I recall reading about and seeing Waltham Railroad Watches that had been up-jeweled and then a plug inserted with the new count.
Adding to my confusion I looked up the serial number 25181596 in Tom McIntyre's Database and it came back as being a 19-Jewel Grade 239 movement.
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Here is a closer view of the markings. You'll see the circled 17 and the "Jeweled Mainwheel" as well. I'm not entirely certain what they meant by that one so any information about this watch and its markings might prove helpful to me and interesting to others as well.
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
This should have 19 jewels, with the jeweled mainwheel, unless a couple of the visible jewels are not matched by another under the dial. This movement is certainly unusual and should be explored further. The markdown to "17" certainly looks like factory work.
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
Yes, I am fairly certain that it is a plug. The Jeweled Mainwheel is the upper toothed part of the mainspring assembly that drives the center wheel. It has two large "doughnut" jewels that embrace the winding arbor. On most of Waltham's 19-jewel watches these are the two extra jewels beyond the basic seventeen. They are not visible unless you take the watch apart. The jeweled mainwheel is otherwise functionally the same as Waltham's typical safety barrel.
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
It would have been one heck of a trick getting the demascene lines redone on the plug to match the plates. The plug must've been put in before it left the factory. But why? -Cort
Posts: 536 | Location: El Cerrito, California U.S.A. | Registered: October 04, 2004
It would be really interesting to take this one apart and check the jeweling. Waltham was beginning to cheapen the finish of their watches at this time. Perhaps there was some cost saving in skipping a couple of jewels somewhere (although I can't imagine why).
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
I have one from the same run as Lindell's watch. Mine is a few numbers higher. Mine has the exact same pattern and wording. Mine does have the jeweled barrel arbors as shown.
Jerry, I got mine years ago. Tore it down then, and if my memeory serves me correctly, it has 19 jewels. But I might be wrong. If I get time tomarrow, I'll try to disassemble it and take some pics just to be sure. Although, it might be several days before I get the chance to tear into it.
Lindell--I got your phone message. As I said above, I will try to post pix when i get it torn down.
Finally got a chance to disassemble my watch. As per the pic enclosed, the hole in the barrel top plate is jeweled with two jewels as shown in the diagram above The pic shows the arbor removed. The jewel material is clear so makes it hard to see in the pic. There is no jewel in the pillar plate. So, in essence, this watch is a 19J watch and not a 17J as marked.
I finally received another example and immediately tore it apart. It definitely has 19 jewels. This example, from an earlier run, is not as nice as Lindell's in that the plug is not damasceened to match the plate.
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
If I recall correctly, some of the 5th pinion open face Illinois watches that had the 5th pinion jeweled were still marked "15 Jewels" just like their hunting counterparts without the 5th pinion. These watches actually contained 17 jewels.
Ed Ueberall IHC Member 34 The Escapement
Posts: 620 | Location: Pooler, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: November 23, 2002
First I find this all really interesting. I am a real novice when it comes to these things but I would like to add my thoughts. It appears to me that Waltham just choose a different way to describe the 19 jewels. To my untrained eye it reads to me to say that the watch has 17 jewels, and it also has a jeweled main wheel, as in "in addition to" It was done in house and there are several examples so maybe it was a marketing thing. If a 17 jewel Waltham was 30 bucks, and a 19 jewel was 50 bucks maybe they sold this one for 42 bucks and allowed the jeweler try and upsell them on it. Just some of my thoughts. John
The plug must've been put in before it left the factory. But why?
