Hi all
Its been awhile since I last posted, mainly because I have been busy and could not work on watches that often.
But I picked up my first elgin convertible. I have managed to take it most of the way apart, very carefully noting what goes where. But I am stuck trying to take apart the setting wheel. I dont what to break anything.
I did manage to find this John D. Duvall's Helping Hands post but it doesnt suggest anything on removing the center wheel shaft. How should I remove the cannon pinon? It doesnt want to come off like most elgin ones.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

Which wheel are you referring to?

If you are referring to setting wheel 1, it is retained by the setting wheel arbor coming through the hollow center of the center wheel. This arbor also secures the Cannon Pinion "Swiss style". The arbor extends about 2 mm from the top of the cannon pinion and needs to be driven down flush to the cannon pinion using your staking set. You must allow clearance on the other side for the cap end of that arbor to drop into.

Success with that releases the cannon pinion on the top and the #1 setting wheel held in by the cap end of the arbor when it all drops out the other side of the watch as pictured in the "Helping Hands" pictorial.

Thank you very much Dave. One nice tap with my little brass hammer and the shaft was tapped out of the pinon. A little pressure and it slid out of the center of the setting wheel 2 arbor.
I afraid of breaking something, and wasnt sure what to do. I figured a nice post here would stop me from possibly breaking a hard to get part. I try not to force things unless I am sure.
One other question has risen now that I have it apart. Should the brass center wheel spin while holding its arbor?

Jim the brass center wheel only gets loose on its arbor when the safety pinion has unscrewed up. Many of the center wheels were mounted to the arbor via a "D" hole with a matching geometry on the arbor. The Safety pinion would secure that nicely when it is fully assembled. to understand that better go to;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...891086233#5891086233

Thats what I thought when I saw the safety pinon was loose, but this doesnt look like a standard setup with the d hole and the arbor that fits.
I am going to have to charge up the camera battery to get a pic, most likely in the morning
Additional info that may help while its charging. The movement is a 3 finger bridge convertible serial 6336287.

The camera charged faster than I thought it would. Here is the best pic I could take. The safety pinon is removed. You can see the arbor sticks into a metal disk in which it is loose. There is no D shaped hole. When the safety pinon is tightened as much as I safely tighten any safety pinon the wheel will spin if the arbor is held. The arbor spins in the metal disk, not the disk in the wheel.

I have been doing a lot of thinking on this. As I understand it, unless I can get the center wheel to stop spinning on the arbor then the watch will not run. The safety pinon is on the arbor and it takes the energy from the mainspring and through the center wheel to the rest of the movement. Am I correct in what I am thinking?

Jim, there is something missing, look for a flat washer or something with an ID that matches the Arbor OD which when sandwitched under the safety pinion increases the "grab" of the safety pinion to the arbor and wheel

Thanks for the idea Dave.
I had to create a washer. I used a piece of aluminum from a soda can, drilled a small hole, then cut it out with a stake. With it in place the arbor no longer spins.. I will post pictures of the movement when I get it done.

I am almost done with this watch, I will be taking pictures of it as soon as the battery in my camera charges.
But so others who may have a similar problem on one of these can fix it I am going to share what happened.
The washer idea was a good one, but when the center wheel was put back in the movement it would bind on the frame. I took a look and saw that there was a flange on the top of the arbor. I figured it couldnt hurt to tighten it down.
I took out the staking set, took the gear off the arbor and found a stake that would fit over the threads. I but this in the bottom of the anvil. I found a beveled riveting stake that fit over the top of the arbor. That one went in the top. A few light taps and the arbor was tight and didnt slip on the gear.
I ran into another problem in that the mainspring wouldnt tighten. Looking at the mainspring arbor the tab that the spring hooks on was broken off. I took a look on ebay and found a 11j parts movement that only cost me $22, a steal!
After replacing the spring arbor and getting it back together it ran like a champ. It was off 1 minute a day, I can live with that for now