I believe the Premier Maximus was made in two runs of 200 & 1000 watches in 1908. The first price was $250 , increased to $400 in 1912, $620 in 1925 & onto $750. I guess the movement numbers were allocated in 1908 & watches actually made in subsequent years/decades. Is this the case ? And would the quality be consistant over all those years ?

Henry Fried told me that the last time he was at Waltham they had two uncased movements in the vault.This was in the early 50's.I have no idea what the SN's were.
Mine is #17057005 and it is recased.
J Smith

Wow, nice watch Lindell. Do we get to see under the hood?
Best regards,
gp

Here is the page and some pictures of my Premier Maximus. The correct case is an important part of the watch but is not usually found on the English examples because they were sent over as loose movements. The first run is in marked cases like my example. The later run is often found in unmarked cases. I think the watches got a bit mixed up in later years because many appear with unmatched serial numbers on the case and movement. They were presumably cleaned, adjusted and cased to order from material in stock.

Out of curiosity, what other watches had diamond end stones on the balance wheel AND the escape wheel?

Many of the other American Watch Co. grade movements did, as well as many of the Riverside Maximus. This 12-size also has a diamond on the pallet fork cap.

I know of an early Premier Maximus # 17000114, that is fitted in a 14ct. double hinge case.But the body of the case which holds the watch , I believe , is brass. Is this arrangement a "one off", or are there similar cases out there ?

Lindell, Tom, Your pictures and information are fantastic. I have seen these before, and now I know a lot more about them. Thanks!

Tom, Every time I go to your pages I am shocked at how wonderful they are. Beautiful work!

A couple of additional points concerning the Premier Maximus.
Although we have several examples in our database being housed in Dennison cases (and thus made for the English market) Lindell's is the only Prem. Max. we have recorded with a Roman Numeral dial.
We have data on 28 movements, 11 of 201 in the first run 17,000,000 to 17,000,200 (5.47%) and 17 of 300 in the second run 17,057,001 to 17,057,300 (5.67%) Three examples in each run are listed as being in factory marked cases, engraved with the movement serial number. Of these, one is 14 Kt, five are 18 Kt. The low percentage that have the mvt. serial number on the movement (21.4%), leads me to wonder if the factory marked cases were an option rather than supplied with every movement. Certainly the ones going to England went without cases. Most of the other cases are also solid gold, mostly 14 Kt.
Only four movements (two from each run) have the silver dial, rather than the more common enamel dial.

I am pretty sure the silver dial was ordered less often and it cost as much or perhaps more than the enamel dial. I don't have an original price list to check.

At least one example was sold in a matching silver box with both dials.

I have also not seen the Kew Certificate that was available as an option on these watches.

I have begun to wonder when the Premier Maximus was first introduced. I, and probably others, have cited Gene Fuller's "The Priceless Possession of a Few" (Bulletin Supplement 10) which states that this special model was introduced in 1908. However, in re-reading Moore's "Timing A Century" he gives an introduction date of 1911, citing the minutes of the May 22, 1911 stockholders' meeting. Does anyone have any other data to determine when the Premier Maximus was introduced?
Lindell - what is the hallmark date in your English-cased example?

I will dig out my National Geographic CD collection and see what the early PM ads say.

On another thought, I have seen one example of the PM with a Montgomery (or at least marginal minutes) dial. I was wondering if it got recorded by Ed and Kent. I was not recording serial numbers at the time.

Thanks, Tom. I look forward to hearing what you find in the National Geographics.

Tom, you are correct. Premier Maximus S/N 17,057,225 was listed by the seller in 1993 as having a double sunk "Premier Maximus" marked Montgomery dial.

Everyone,

Thanks to Jerry's inquiry about the case hallmarks on my Premier Maximus I did a bit of research.

These things are a puzzle to me but the "A.L.D" refers to Aaron Lufkin Dennison, the case-maker and that anchor symbol indicated Birmingham, England Assay Office from what I could determine. I sent an eMail to Birmingham explaining what the movement is and asked for information further defining the markings.

A polite and helpful response from Birmingham provided the following...

"The marks indicate the Dennison Watch Case Company, founded by Aaron Lufkin Dennison in 1874 and continuing in business until 1967. The anchor indicates that the watch case was indeed assayed and marked in Birmingham, the date letter ‘O’ indicates 1913 and the crown and the figure 18 show that when assayed the case was found to be of 18ct standard gold. The numerals beneath these marks are the serial number of the case."

Perhaps this will help dating these watches a bit more precisely.


Premier Maximus 17057273 Birmingham Hallmarks...

Thanks, Lindell. I have had some information coming in from various quarters and will share more as I find it.

Tom - any luck yet finding the old National Geographic ads? I have had a report of the PM being listed in a 1909 Waltham catalog (haven't seen it yet, though), so you may find an ad for it that far back as well.

After 10 years I think this post needs some new life. Here is one I recently got at auction (not EB) and, from the discussion here, I think it must be one of the rarer Premier Maximus. 18K gold Wadsworth case and silver dial... Would love to know the thoughts of you PM experts on this one.. It should be here in the next few days... Any thoughts on cleaning up the dial? I suspect that the dial is printed and therefore fragile to any kind of cleaning agent... Thanks.. Walt

Photo #2

[Movement number: 17000087]

Photo #3 18K white gold

photo #4 The original box.... When it arrives I'll discover if any papers are inside

Thanks for the pics.

Mike

I don't have it yet... These are the auction posted pics.

Exciting experience to view such a nice piece .

Mike

The dial is a solid silver dial with applied gold numerals showing original toning, I would not touch it, it is great as it is. The case looks original to the movement, but the dustcovers are usually signed Premier Maximus with some having the same movement number on the dustcover. I have owned 4 of these and all had the Premier marking on the dustcover, with 2 matching serial numbers to the movement but 2 that had different numbers than the movement. Geno

Nice watch, Walter. You outbid me for it by $100.

No Gene... I outbid you by $1.00... When I did that at the last moment it surprised me by adding a "1/2 increment" which was $100.00... I have other PMs and this one was a keeper for me. Good for you for going for it. I think it's a sleeper... Walt

Sorry.. I meant Ethan on the outbid. Gene, I'll post here when it arrives about the case markings. From Ed U's previous post the silver dials seem to be a real rarity. Looking at the movement photos the case seems to be original from the screw marks.hope to see all in Chattanooga next month. I'll have it at my table if you would like to have a hands on examination.

My wife and I will be in Chattanooga in June. My wife collects paper dolls and doll houses and I collect Railroad Grade pocket watches. The national convention of paper doll collectors just so happens to be in Chattanooga at the same time and place. It was meant to be.

You're living a charmed life, Michael.

Dial cleaning -- I think you have to leave it as it is. On a lesser watch a very light wash with mild soapy water might clean the tarnish/dirt but on a PM I wouldn`t chance it. ( Don`t like to think of the price of a replacement dial )
When the watch left the factory they were supplied with a spare crystal & main-springs so they would be a bonus to find in the box - fingers crossed.