Can any Waltham experts tell me what I've got here please?
Just bought via eBay, and done a quick search of the Waltham database and the details don't add up.

According to the DB, it's an 18S Wm Ellery, Key wind, with 7J 3/4 plate movement dated around 1863.

It's actually a Stem Wind, Lever set movement, with screw set jewels all the way to the centre wheel, a cut bi-metalic compensation balance with timing screws and a micrometer regulator!
I've not had the dial off yet to check the jewelling on the dial plate.

All it states on the movement is 'United States Watch co', 'Waltham Mass', serial No '95461'

The case has a screw back and bezel, and stamped 'Fahys * Oresilver * No1' Serial No 5020024 - all case numbers match.
The movement screw marks are a tad out of allignment on the case, yet the movement and lever fits like a glove.
It's a non runner, fully wound and with a sticky balance, but the staff seems sound enough.

I didn't even know it was a Waltham until it arrived and got the back off, (cringe) the auction listing just stated 'United States Watch Co' ........ Shows what I know about these watches!

The auction photo's were also pretty poor, but I could still make out the beautiful damascening and all the screw set jewels, and had a hunch it might be a tad out of the ordinary, but maybe not?.

The hands don't appear to match, can anyone tell me which one is the correct type? I suspect it's the minute hand.

All comments appreciated

Best regards

John

Movement.

JW.

Dial.

Some damage which I suspect is over a dial foot, plus some hairlines.

John

Case Marks.

John

Balance and jewels.

There's quite a few marks on the plates, which look like black rust spots, maybe from finger marks.
Is there any way of getting this off without spoiling the damscening?

John

You have a very nice Hunter Movement of the U.S.Watch of Waltham (USWofW) brand.

The USWofW was formed with the combination of some financiers and Mr Van De Woerd, the Waltham Genius who left American Watch Co, Waltham in the late 1870's and formed his own Watch-making Machine Company in Waltham.

The below is excerpted from the 2008 price guide about The U.S.Watch of Waltham Company.

They reflect the early genius of Mr. Van De Woerd's design and machine work that started under the influence of Dennisen. This one looks great even with the wrong hands. (they will be replaced when I clean and service this)

This first generation S/N 348, 18 size USWofW tells the whole story of the firat Waltham 3/4 plate 10s and up designs by Mr. Van De Woerd. Most interesting wind and set mechanism too!

Thanks Dave, is it worth hanging on to, or an interesting clean up excercise to move on?

I'd a suspicion it was a recase due to the odd screw marks.
Looks quite nice in this open face case though, and quite a chunk to hold.

Next time I'll remember to pick up one of my watch guides, got a few lined up in front of me here

John

John, a serial number 95461 of anything is collectible, and this is a fine 1892 vintage example of the early phase of that company. Please keep it or let me know first if you decide otherwise. I developed a taste for these as I learned more of their short history. Below is my "last" model which a very finely done Hunter Case that in the haste to attract buyers was marked New York where in fact they had some interested investors.

This one happened within Months of the Keystone Buyout. Looks like the beginings of a Keystone/Howard movement doesn't it?

Thanks again Dave,
You'll be the first to know if I decide to dispose of it.

I'm slowly learning about these American watches, and dumping all my later Swiss stuff to buy a few more examples.
This one especially caught my eye though.
Had a bit of a scrap for it, but it wasn't too expensive (I think)?

Would this example have had a Silver hunter case do you think?
Wonder how it turned up in the UK?

BTW, do you use a light tent for your photo's?

John

John,
Here is a pic of the high dome mentioned in David,s post.

At that time, either silver or Gold case.

Ed that looks like a DuBro model airplane tire to me with a nice old watch on it. My lifetime hobby was Modeling and I ended up making a company called Hitec-RCD who under my Ownership sorta got big in Radio Control systems . . . the below is a 1992 ad from that business. I designed the "ultimate" Radio control racers, 160 MPH in 1992 270+ in 1993, 300+ in 1994. (Think of a 250cc opposed twin double Husky Chain saw engine in a 45 pound plane.)

Dave,
It appears the drone arm of our military can thank you for your inovations! The fellow I used to work with has a sun that worked with the military drones in Iraq. They sure saved a lot of US lives.
That is a model aircraft wheel. I picked up the idea last summer at a watch school. It works well for some applications and is great place to just set a movement fo a while.

General Atomic is right here in San Diego. In 1991-2 I worked with the guys who made that incredible wing for our drones and helped them with that and my RCD designed some MAJOR servos for the controls of the first prototypes.

I also did all the design stuff for my planes. The ultimate Model Planes. (Even used my own design emergency autopilots)

The construction used on those racing planes you see in the pictures was to tolerate 240 MPH 20G turns (the 40 pound planes weigh 800 pounds in the turns) around three "Reno type" pylons on a 3/4 mile racecourse.

The wings were carbon/fiber-interwoven with kevlar laminated on honeycomb panels stressed across carbon fiber wing spars. The Fuselage "skin" is a laminate of 1/4-1/4 ounce co-woven Kevlar/Fiberglass over 1/8" thin honeycomb. All "ribs" and Bulkheads are Blue construction foam. The pressure vessels for fuel delivery and air hydraulic landing gear systems were 2 liter Soda bottles (125 psi tested).

I designed the solid state ignition system with a microprocessor-based "mapping" system for rpm/advance calculations. (Using the same motorola uP that I used in my "bulletproof " dual-conversion RC receivers.)

The engines were Husquevarna 125 cc Chain saws (to start with) which by the second year were twin 250cc opposed, reed valve cranckcase ported that gave about 60 Hp @ 8500 RPPM on 125 octane "pump" gas. That was max for the 22 Inch x 20 inch pitch propellors which went supersonic past that point.

Then there were the Jets

David,
You continue to amaze me with your talents!

John

To get back to your watch, it appears to be a nice looking watch, I have found that a lot of times those rust spots will just come off in the cleaning. I think sometimes it is actually crud that has gotten on the plates & rusted & not the plates themselves.

As to the case I think it could have come in the case you have. I don't have a clue to what hands would have been orginal.

Keep us posted if you get it to run.

Tom

Fine looking watches Dave, I especially like that art nouveau case engraving - or is it repousé work?
Thanks for the photo of the 'domed' movement too Edward, I'm sure I've seen one similar to that over here recently, will have to mull that one over, see If I can remember where.

Thanks for the comments Tom,
I'll probably keep the movement in this case, it's got a nice solid chunky feel to it, looks clean and undamaged, and quite a bit of weight in it.

The minute hand seems 'right' for the watch somehow, and think I've got a couple of pairs of this style anyway, so will have a play around and see what fits.

You're probably right about the spots, they're miniscule specs as if a fine mist of water's clipped it.
Not really visible until you get it under a loupe, just don't want to damage the damascening trying to get it off.

The watch is sat in the 'pending tray' right now, daren't strip this one until I've got a few other dismembered watches back together.
Will certainly update when it's ticking away again though.

Best regards

John

John this "cousin" of your movement popped up when your thread caused me to look for an hour hand. As our presidential Inauguration is now completed, I think I will re-direct my "re-energized" spirit to rehabilitate this little beauty. Thank You for making me look!

Hey David, that is One Nice Watch!
So close on the serials too, I wonder how many others are still out there?

Have to say, if that watch of yours is ready for 'rehabilitation', it makes mine nearer ready for the bin .......... Only kiddin'

I don't know how you guys find stuff like that.

I feel better about the hunter setting in an open face case now, having seen yours.
I always imagine hunters having a front dome for some reason.
Maybe I've looked at too much European stuff for too long .............

John

John, as pretty as it looked it smelled like a rendering factory. I have it out of the cleaner now and will add pics when it's done. I like yours especially because it is an early Nickel Damaskeened plate movement and I think it will clean up beautifully, but it does need a morning glory hour hand to compliment that nice minute hand.

Now it does not smell like a dungeon. The "Depression re-case" even looks good.

Beautiful result David, I would love some more time to be able to really dig into my stuff and get them up on the boards.

I have a watch here in a gunmetal case that stinks to high heaven, so I know just what you mean about a rendering factory.

This things stinks so bad I almost can't bear to pick it up.
Occasionally I forget and cop a lungfull and end up with some goo of whatever it is that stinks on my hands and have to go scrub up.
I really should put it out of its misery.

John