I recently acquired a nice O F 21j model 10 Howard in a nice Keystone Howard case. However while the case has the Howard marked dustcover and inside the dustcover is marked J. Boss with the keystone logo, the inside of the back cover has the star and crescent logo I associate with the Crescent watch case co. I do not have much Howard knowledge and I wondered if that was unusual? The case shows no evidence of any repairs and is in very nice condition.

Those Keystone Howards were factory cased and would only properly fit J Boss or Crescent cases so I would guess it to be a repair. Are there serial numbers on both covers?

Looking at my series 10, the back cover is marked Keystone watchcase with a keystone surrounding Co. It also has the J boss logo of a crown and scale. The dust cover js marked J Boss Extra, and also has the Keystone logo. The numbers match. I hope this helps.

I would suspect either the cuvette or the back cover has been "swapped" out by simply pulling a hinge pin and putting a different lid in place on Deacon's case because of some unknown problem we aren't aware of, the most logical of which would be changing out the back cover because of initials, personalization or wear to brass and/or denting, etc. The other reason could be changing the cuvette of a Crescent plain marked cuvette to a Keystone "JBOSS" cuvette which also has the "Howard Watch Co." ring which would add value to the watch and hoping that no one would notice that the case would sport two seperate watch case company logos.

regards,
bb

I have several of these keystone Howards and my experience is like Jerry Freedman's. If the serial numbers match on both covers, and the cuvette has the typical embossed circular Howard name, I think you're good to go Deacon.

Thanks to all. The numbers match so this must be in the same category as Mikes.

I don't believe I have seen a Keystone "JBOSS"/Crescent case, but I would be tickled to see a few if pictures are available. I'm always willing to see something new.

regards,
bb

I may be reading this wrong but to me Jerry and Mike are describing J Boss cases and Deacon is talking about some kind of hybrid. I am in Buster's camp and would like to see pictures.

Keystone, J. Boss, Crescent and Philadelphia were all part of the same company by about 1904.

If I can get my son to take the pictures I will post them. I looked again and I do not think it is a Frankencase. One thought is that Keystone having purchased the Howard co. undoubtedly wanted to case the movements in Keystone cases. However prior to Keystones acquiring Howard Crescent cases were in use by Howard. Perhaps the case or parts were in stock and they used up what parts they had? I seem to recall that Waltham, having made movements for Howard, was stuck with a number of Howard movements that they sold off as Walthams. At any rate I will try for pictures.

If I can size my pictures right, I'll post some pictures here of several Howard cases of the style of Deacon's watch/case. Deacon describes a hinged Howard case with two back covers - the inner lid being called a cuvette. The writing on these cases looks diffrent, but the serial numbers are the same. Lorne's message might have tipped us off what's going on here when he stated, "Keystone, J. Boss, Crescent and Philadelphia were all part of the same company by about 1904."
Here is example 1A showing a cuvette with its signage...

....and here is example 1B (same watch) showing the inside of the back hinged cover with the same serial number.

Here is a second example. First the inner cuvette.....

.....followed by the outer cover signage.

Most of the Howards I have use swingout cases - but maybe that's because many people don't like them as they seem to try peoples patience getting to or closing the movement in the case and they want to get shed of the contraption. But these cases have only one cover and thus 50% less chance of dirt entering the case. They are an excellent RR case.
The signage on the Keystone Howard swingout cases looks thusly...

And one more picture of the J.Boss / Keystone sign on the swingout case follows here...

Mike, using your first two pictures Deacon says his case would be

!A - Marked J. Boss

!B - Right - Howard Boston circle
!B - Left - Star & Crescent

So the cuvette is J.Boss while the back cover is Crescent yet Deacon says the serial numbers are the same.

I could understand a repair as Buster suggests but the serial number thing has me confused. The only thing I could come up with, and it is a bit of a stretch, is some factory hijinks. In order for that to be possible the cases would need to be made in the same factory and who knows if that was the situation. One way or the other it's a fun riddle and hopefully some pictures are coming.

Here is a Crescent Extra Swing-out case housing a Series 10

I concur with Lorne. Mike is showing Keystone "JBOSS" cases all the way. Deacon has a case that has a cuvette marked Keystone "JBOSS" and the back cover marked Crescent with the star & moon symbols.

That is two separate watch case companies Mike.

Deacon is going to post some pictures soon, maybe, perhaps......

regards,
bb

When I can motivate my son Buster. I should mention that my case does not say Crescent as Mike has shown, it has the rest of the usual crescent trademark though, the star and moon symbols and they are on the back cover not the cuvette.

Here is a page from a Howard catalog The 1035 and 1055 are Series 10 watch movements and the '35' and '55' are case styles.

OK, OK!.... here is an example of the Crescent Howard case so you don't have to motivate your son, Deacon. Buster, you are never too old to learn.

Here is the inside of the cuvette of the previous picture showing the CWCC symbol and matching serial number. Although this is a size 12 watch, the same watch case was available in size 16.

Note the stop works on the ratchet wheel which is sort of rare.

You are so right Mike !!

By the way Mike, do you have a-n-y cases at all that the "cuvette" AND the outside "back cover" are marked from 2 different watch case companies, one being Keystone and the other being Crescent ?? I have looked at all your pictures BUT I am not seeing one single case that has 2 different case company markings on the "same" watch case.

What you just showed is your rare 12 sz "stop works" Howard with cuvette marked Crescent, and back cover marked Crescent.

Are you understanding that Deacon says he has one case that has a cuvette marked Keystone and a back cover marked with the crescent watch company logo of a Star & Moon ??

regards,
bb

Great info Mike. I guess a few more Howard photos are in order while we wait for more info from Deacon.
Here is the inside cuvette from a No. 1035 although the movement is a No.10 rather than Series 10. The Howard Watch Co. circle is on outside of the cuvette but for some reason don't have a pic.

And inside the outer cover.

Yup, what Buster said.

Aha-Ha, Buster and Lorne and Deacon! I was reading Deacons message, but read right over what he was saying! I apologize for being so dense! I never considered there was a J.Boss cover and a different Keystone cover. That DOES sound like a mismatch. Maybe someone was trying to get rid of a personalization on one or the other of the covers? Again, thanks for the clarification

WHEW

You were driving me crazy and most know I don't have far to go as it is a short trip for me

regards,
bb

Lorne,
Would you say that 14K case/logo was made by CCWC?

You know Mike I never even thought about that and wouldn't even hazard a guess as it would be based on nothing. Anybody else have any input on this?

I looked in "The Complete Guide..." for solid gold marks and found the following logo. Based on shape of the mark and Howards relationship to Keystone, I would say your case is made by Keystone.

I also have a similar case on a very early Keystone Howard, and so will show 2 pictures to follow.....

....first the gold mark on the case....

.... and then the 23J movement (SN 953059) in the case. This unmarked, Series 0 movement, was in the first run of Series O watches produced by the E. Howard Watch Co. Note he criss-cross damaskeen pattern.