Hamilton Sn. 1059314
Is this the first model 992 or the second?
I am looking at picking one up but want to get an idea of what I'll get. Thanks,

Aaron Bereiter
NAWCC# 156432
Very Proud IHC Charter #55
You will never prosper if you live your life in fear.

Hamilton number 1059314 is from a 992 run which comprised of 1057001-1061300 during 1913 and 1914 according to the Hamilton records compiled by John F. Gelson. I can report that 1084247 which is a bit later in 1914 still has the early and very beautiful damaskening pattern.

Based upon that reference I would anticipate 1059314 being the early pattern, but to have one screw in the center of the crown wheel. Later on they went to the narrow stripped design which continued through the end of 992 production.

The earlier 992 examples have two screws in the center of the crown wheel and a four-footed dial which ended by 872000 in 1912. For a while after the three-footed dials were introduced, the crown wheels remained unchanged, which causes some confusion today.

Hope this information is of help to you.

Lindell

ihc185@roadrunner.com

as much as it pains me i have to point out that your wrong, that particular serial number has two screws thru the crown wheel. i know this because i am holding it in my hand other than this one error you have been right on for as long as i have been reading your posts sorry ERIC

Eric Kroon

just for clarification,

1059314

two winding wheel screws, Old style damaskeening, and three dial feet??

I have in my records,

1059871, two screws also...

1073167, one screw, old pattern......

Sure is terry, is that a problem or unusual?

Eric Kroon

NAWCC Member 151367

Just sounds like the transitional period. Interesting.

Aaron Bereiter

no problem,
like aaron said, transitional time before the 'second' model.

the run 1062301-1066000 needs to be documented to see if the change to one screw occurs in it..that is the only run between these..

there are runs that need to be documented to find the change over to the second model. unless someone knows off the top of their head..

Serial number 1063371 is listed in our database as having two transmission wheel screws. The earliest number we have listing only one screw is 1073167, the number Terry posted.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688
IHC #34
http://members.aol.com/stdwatch/

My bet was hedged by saying... "I would anticipate...one screw in the center"...so I can wiggle off the hook for the moment, but only until I make another wild guess!

But seriously, very interesting information coming out here guys, I'm taking some notes on Terry and Ed's numbers! And I think Aaron calling this the "transitional" period in Hamilton development is most appropriate.

So now can anyone come up with when they went to the highly polished gold center wheel (GCW) on the 992 models? I don't recall ever seeing that feature with the early pattern, did that come with the plain stripes or was that a running change like so many other things?

And just to clarify, is it correct to call the ornate early pattern the first model and the plain stripes the second model?

Lindell

I dont know about the GCW but have always been told that the narrow stripe demaskining brought on the second model.

Aaron Bereiter
NAWCC# 156432
Very Proud IHC Charter #55
We rise highest when we stoop to help others.

It seems to me that there are actually three changes that took place at about (but NOT exactly) the same time;
A. Change in damaskeen from 'fancy' to 'stripes'.
B. Change from two to one transmission wheel screws.
C. Change from four dial feet to three.

Since all three involve basic changes to the watch plates, they cannot be 'switched' without having different SNs on the plates, unlike the center wheel change.
We call the fancy damaskeen, two screw, four dial foot version the first model, and the stripe damaskeen, one screw three dial foot version the second model. What do we call the intermediates, and exactly how were they configured (or in other words, in what sequence were the changes made)?
The latest fancy damaskeen we have listed is 1,073,855, so that change seems to have been made later that the two to one screw change.
Also, while we are at it, what about the single roller 992s? In my experiance they are on the scarce side, and some of the early SNs which you would expect to be single roller, are in fact double roller, and some are even engraved "double roller" on the plates. Kent and I have theorized that some of the early movements may have stayed in the Hamilton vaults for a while and were refitted (and re-engraved?) when they were eventually sold. Its also possible that Hamilton retrofitted the DR when the watches were returned for an 'upgrade' at the factory, or by a local jeweler whose customer wanted the latest improvements to his watch.
Hmmm, the more we know, the more questions there are to be answered.

Ed Ueberall

Ed, from my observations.....

The change from four to three dial feet was first,
somewhere around 87x,xxx

Then the change from two transmission screws to one

The centerwheel and stripe changes have not been documented. My gut feeling is they changed at the same time.

Observations will prove or disprove... just takes "time"..... and remembering to look for these changes