I just recently purchased a 1920 or 1923? Elgin pocket watch at a very reasonable price(I think). I know very little about the information I obtained from the seller being that I am new to the watch/clock world. But I do know I am "hooked" or sorta obsessed with time pieces, I think more so on Pocket Watches rather than clocks. This one just sorta struck my fancy. I would appreciate some thoughts here on this particular piece... I do know that there are some expert professional collectors on this forum that know their "stuff" and I value their opinions. Here is the description and I will post pics:
MOVEMENT:ELGIN NAT'L WATCH CO,SERIAL # 23,622,499,GRADE 384,SIZE 12,CLASS 114,OPEN FACED,QUICK TRAIN,PENDANT WINDING AND SETTING, 3/4 NICKEL PLATE,3rd MODEL,SEVENTEEN JEWELS, GOLD JEWEL SETTINGS,EXPOSED WINDING WHEELS, ADJUSTEDTO HEAT,COLD,AND ISOCHRONISM,STREAM LINE BOW AND PENDANT. MOVEMENT DATES TO 1920, CUSTOM MADE FOR OTTO YOUNG & CO.,wHO GAVE THE MOVEMENT, AND THE WHOLE WATCH, DISTINCT STRTEAMLINE FEATURES FOR MARKETING IN 1923......ACCURATE. HAS BEEN STORED BY A WELL LOVED RECIPIENT FOR ALMOST ALL OF IT'S 85 YEARS !! VERY LOW MILEAGE...THESE 1923 OTTO YOUNG AND CO STREAMLINE WATCHES, ARE SINGLED OUT BY ROY EHRHARD IN HIS BOOK ON THE ELGIN WATCH COMPANY.
DIAL: DESCRIBED BY THE MANUFACTURER AS "CLEAR, SPACIOUS, SILVERED".ORIGINAL.
HANDS: BLUE/BLACK GUNMETAL. CROSS BAR DIAMOND STYLE.
CRYSTAL: GLASS. ORIGINAL
CASE: 10 KARAT GOLD FILLED BY THE WADSWORTH WATCH CASE CO OF NEWPORT, KY. SNAP ON FRONT BEZEL WITH HINGED REAR COVER. BEAUTIFULLY ENGINEERED, HAVING AN ENGRAVED BOW, WITH ENRAVING SURROUNDING THE BEZEL AND ALSO SURROUNDING THE SIMPLY PLAIN REAR COVER.
pics to follow

Elgin pic:

another view:

movement:

inside case:

another:

I also picked up a couple of old 10K chains, one a simmons, unique, that I plan to hook up with this Elgin. Don't know nothing about this Otto Young Co. Thank You,
Steve Tiffin

Stevan this is the ad that Roy put in his book. Your watch looks all very correct, and that would make it pretty special to this series.

David,

Thank's a bunch! I believe the first one top left is the one I got. Description and pic is right on. I really appreciate your help. This is only my second Pocket watch...The first one was a Waltham and the next....who knows'...But I am saving up and will be on the look out for maybe a Hamilton 992...
Thanks Again, Stevan

Stevan,

What I like about your watch is that it is all original. A few clues are that the hands all match, the engraving on the bow matches the bezel, and there is only one set of case screws. The advertising that David found just confirms this. Due to the various sizes of 12 size movements (diameter and thickness), cases and dials were not interchangeable Thus, 12 size watches are fairly easy to find in original condition.

On the other hand, when you go to try to locate that 992 or other 16 size railroad watch, you will find it much more difficult to find an original combination. That is where the membership in IHC185 pays off since there are experts here who can help determine if the dial, hands, movement and case are a likely factory match.

Anyway, great watch!

John III

Stevan,

From the on-line Elgin watch database, here is the info on your watch movement:

Search Results For "23622499"
Serial Number SN Range Quanty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
23622499 23620001 4000 1920 384 12s o3n3p 17j Adj


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
384 177900 102 1909 1922 114 12s o3n3p 17j Adj

John

Thanks David,
Again, I appreciate all the help from everybody here. I trust what I see and read here and I know this is the place I will seek advice and help. Some mighty fine good people here. When I was growing up where I come from here in the deep south, and before my late teens, my prized possessions was a good pair of "engineer" black boots, a pocket knife, a daisy bb gun, a good used bike, a baseball glove, a bag of marbles and a "steele", a good dog and a pocket watch. We didnt have watch chains...we just cramped our watch down in our pocket with everything else. I think most all of them were Elgins and most had silver cases. didnt cost much of nothing. I dont know where they all got off to....Although I do still have one empty watch case, one rusty pocket knife, my baseball glove, one bb gun and my dog is buried behind my folks house. But I remember the Elgin well. I can still hear it. So I guess I will have to always be partial to the Elgin. Nothing like "Old Times".
Thanks Again... Stevan

I recently purchased an Elgin 1920 s12, serial # 23,622,499, class 114, grade 384. I posted pics in above in this topic here on this forum.

Now it is here and an old Simmons chain to go with it. I am very fascinated with it. I slowly and carefully wound it some yesterday, set the time and it ran all night and kept perfect time and stopped this morning. I wound it a little more and its running fine. I just don't know how much and how often to wind it. And I would like to open the back and look at the movement and inside the case. I just don't know how. I would appreciate some advice and help. And I'm posting another pic of the watch and cain hooked up.
Thanks...Stevan

Congratulations Stevan! You reunited the chain to the watch! As for winding the watch, don't be afraid to wind it up until you feel some resistance to the wind. It should run about 30 hours on a "full wind".

I noticed in the first pictures you showed of the movement that the regulator whip has jumped out of the regulator micrometer nut. That may indicate someone tried to adjust the timing and that the watch needs cleaning as when it "dries out" it will often change speed more than the regulator can handle.

My suggestion would be to have it cleaned, oiled and recalibrated. Then it should be good for a long run with it's "new keeper".

Thank You David for your expert professional observations and advice. I have opened the back with Lindell's help and really was just satisfied that I accomplished that procedure. I did a brief visual of the movement and inside of the case and carefully shut her back togeather. I would never have noticed what you did. I wound her up slow and easy to the point that you described and set her in time with a fairly decent modern Citizen watch and placed her on her back on the dining room table at lunch. I been gone all day and checked her at 8:08 tonight. She was right on with the Citizen. Of course she has not moved at all and that could be why she was working so smooth and accurate? Her beat rate is that of a baby but strong. My plan now is to leave her there to your suggestion of thirty hours to wind down. I would expect her to lose some time as she winds down if she makes it that long?
When I purchased this watch, I also purchased two chains, from another source at a different time, ( I thought ). One was and one was not. One being the one shown here. Come to find out, the chain shown came from the same place as the watch. I did not adknowledge that the seller was the same. But anyway, I thought it was a little unique the way the two have joined togeather.
As for the watch "Job", what do you think it would cost to fix it and clean and calibrate it and where could I get that done?
My wife and I have really become attached to this watch even before it got here. I want it "right".
You are an asset to this forum and the watch community and especially to me and I know others as well.
Thank You Very Much,
Stevan

Stevan, If the watch keeps time within a minute or two a day and runsfor about 30 hours opn a single wind, that means the friction in the wheel train remains small, and you should be able to enjoy using it as is. If it is out of time more than 4 or 5 minutes a day, or not running long enough, it should be cleaned. We have several good people on 185 that can do that.

Please advise what you find out. Meanwhile, I have a similar movement (Oddball it's marked 15 Jewels, but appears to have been intended as a 19 Jewel.) that is running but really needs a good cleaning, so I will do that this coming week.

As for cleaning cost, Vladimir, my watchmaker Friend And local Mentor charges $65.00 for cleaning lubrication and adjustment.

David,
What makes you think the 15j 12s Elgin movement was supposed to be 19j?

I took a close up of the area you indicated a problem:

I will do as you suggested. Also when I took this pic a few minutes ago, enlarged it and cropped it, I picked the watch up and moved it around and it did stop. I turned it and it started back up and it running now as it has all day. Will the problem you indicated cause this problem?
Thank You,
Stevan

Stevan, if it stops, then I would recommend a cleaning, as if things are too "dry" the watch should not be run much until it has been given an "oil change".

Thomas, This is the ONLY watch I have with Brass Bushings factory installed into Center Wheel and Motor-Barrel screw-in Jewel Mountings. I raised this observation in a thread last November and speculated that the "Jeweled Look" might have been more desirable than the added cost of 4 more Jewels as this watch was made when many expensive swiss Jewels were still being imported.

One reply to that old thread was that as this watch is a very high level Jeweler's Private Label; "A Stowell and Co." it just stands to reason that it had to be a high quality movement. Puzzling, as a 19 Jewel 12 size at that time would be definitely high quality, and a 15 Jewel marked movement that could have been a 19 is sort of nouveau-stupid to me.

I would like to add to all this great information, that it's REALLY IMPORTANT to NOT RUN a watch when it needs cleaning, it can ruin the parts of your watch.

Any watch I pick up that's old, is wound as little as possible, just to see if it works, and if it needs cleaning, I don't wind it again until it's serviced.

There's nothing worse than getting a gummed up, messy watch, and then running it until it's so ground up inside, it's almost too costly to fix.

Last, I have received too many watches that were supposed to have been serviced, and were not, to ever trust that a watch is ok to run, until I can look at it close up.


By the way, great watches!

David,

Thanks for your reply with that information. It prompted me to pull out my 15j Elgin movement like your. I've never looked to closely at it since I obtained it as a parts movement. It has the brass bushings like yours, which is interesting. What's even more interesting is that the center wheel looks not to be of brass but gold! I find that kind of strange. Is yours like that?

Thanks Sheila and David,
Sheila I being a new member have been reading up on some of the threads in different forums here and saw where your husband has had heart surgery. Hope he is doing well. I had four bypasses when I was 41, (sixteen years ago), and suffered a mild heart attack in 99'. They had ignored that vein the first time because it was not critical. So theres a stint there now and I'm fine. Eight weeks after my first surgery, I was in Colorado elk hunting and climbing mountains in blizzards. I'm still very pysically active, hunting, fishing and canoeing when I'm not sleeping as much as possible. The good lord and walking has keep me going along with plenty of love and support from family and friends. My wife never left my side and is still there. And I can tell you are there with yours. Good Luck.
Thanks for everything.... I'm having that watch cleaned and fixed...Am searching for a place as close to home as possible.
Stevan

I found a place, Chris Adell, Flint Tx. Comes highly highly recommended...
So thats where she's going.
Stevan

I am sorry. That should have been Chris Abell.
My error.

Stevan